Bought a watch on Ebay. After about 430 successful transactions over the last 5 years, this is the first bad experience: seller sent a fake watch.
I have filed a claim with Paypal, and they’re investigating the claim.
Don’t get the warm & fuzzie feeling from Paypal I’m looking for so I have few questions:
What other recourse do I have? can I stop my creditcard from paying Paypal?
Is what the seller did fraudulent? Can I file a police report?
From reading Paypals policy, it looks like they will look to resolve the matter to the extend that I return the item at my expense, and then get my money back.
That’s just not good enough. I don’t want to pay that return shipping.
I’m willing to pay a few hundred bucks to make sure the seller gets dinged to the max possible - he either tried to defraud me or renege on a contract - either of which ticks me off.
i don’t know anyhting about what steps you can take via paypal, but i do know that ebay will not lift a finger to help you. i’ve had about about a dozen botched transactions from buying and selling combined, and ebay did nothing every time.
most of the stuff was just nickel-and-dime crap, but we got screwed out of 400 bucks at work over a supposed “full” version of a drafting program, which ended up being a poorly pirated version of said program. the seller said that someone took control of their account and used it to sell the stuff. could be true, but even so, ebay should have temporarily shut down that account to do an investigation. but nothing happened. i’m really suprised these software companies don’t go after ebay, because they’re supporting pirating more than napster ever did. we went through their “safe harbor” crap, and basically they end up telling you that you have to settle everything between you and the seller on your own.
it’s a fucked up system, and i’m suprised people haven’t stopped using it because it’s so easy to get screwed over.
sorry, i guess that was more of a rant than anything resembling help.
but good luck.
If you do a credit card chargeback against a PayPal payment, PayPal will suspend your account and freeze any assets you have in it, so if you are going this route, be sure to drain your PayPal account first.
I can’t really help you on the question, I just wanted to ask what the seller’s feedback rating was like? Is this a new person or someone who has had a few bad transactions?
I’ve had over 500 eBay transactions (all purchases) and have only been dinged a few times. Of course, your first step is to try to get the seller to fix the situation. That’s really your best hope to get any money back without a huge hassle. I’d suggest you settle for your money back less the shipping charge even if that does not sit well with you. Getting any money back is a positive. You can report it to eBay, but that will get you absolutely nowhere. A few times I reported a bad deal with PayPal and managed to get refunds (credit card credits). The only time I got screwed was when I paid through BidPay. I did get a credit card chargeback against BidPay, but BidPay still made a big stink over it. So I avoid any transactions that require payment by BidPay, money order, or check.
I don’t agree that eBay is a fucked-up system. HOWEVER, you have to be careful about who you’re dealing with on the other end of the deal. Scrutinize the feedback, ask a lot of questions, and avoid deals that look much too good to be true. Only one real loss (small amount) for me in over 500 transactions ain’t too bad. The vast majority of the buyers and sellers on eBay are honorable. But caveat emptor for the few crooks.
It would be helpful if you posted a link to the auction. Then I could look at it and get a feel for your recourse.
I am a pretty active buyer and seller on eBay. What kind of watch was it (supposedly)? Many brands will help you if their wares are being pirated on eBay. gucci and Kate spade are two brands that actively try to burn piraters on eBay.
Anyway- post the auction if you want.
My experience with paypal was none too encouraging. I sent a buyer a notebook docking station for approx $ 80.00. About two months later I get word from Paypal that they charged back my account becase the buyer is disputing the charge. I had to jump through **numerous ** hoops (thank God I had my UPS receipt), and Paypal would not give ANY constructive answer as to why it was being charged back despite numerous emails.
I finally sent the buyer a direct email detailing that the damn thing was sent to his house, and could I please have the merchandise back if he did not intend to pay for it. About a week later the funds were released back to me and I received some half assed excuse via email from the buyer that " he didn’t recognize the charge on his card".
Anyway in most cases you are on your own. eBay will do little to help you and Paypal is only marginally better.
Isosleepy:
Can you post a link to the auction for the fake watch, or any other auction that the seller in question has up?
If the seller was part of the $1000 paypal buyer protection you should not have a problem.
You do have to go the the hoops paypal sets up, but in the end you should get your money. I had the same thing happen to me over a Omega Speedmaster in the last month.
good luck
Did you contact the seller? What did he say?
Did you contact the seller? What did he say?
Any chance this person was taken as well or is it pretty blatant? For example you order a Rolex Divemaster and get something called a “Rollux” with a picture of SpongeBob on it?
Like he says. Drain your paypal account and attempt a chargeback.
It’s true that Ebay does little to nothing to help you out. I once won a polaroid camera for $1.00. The seller did not post a shipping cost, so I emailed him and asked for it: $6.00. After winning the item, he sends me an invoice with a shipping cost of $40.00! I of course emailed him back and kindly told him that he was mistaken and that he previously quoted me a shipping price of $6.00. He quite rudely told me that there was no way he was going to give me the camera for just one dollar. I kindly told him that Ebay is a binding contract and in the future he may want to look at starting prices and reserve prices to get the price he wants for the item he is selling. He pretty much told me to fuck off.
I contacted Ebay and followed all of their procedures. I posted the emails that he and I exchanged, including the one where he quotes me 6 bucks, also including the headers of the emails. Ebay sends me robotic responses like, “Try to work it out with the seller, most times disagreements can easily and safely be settled by just talking it out.” After replying to the message and telling them how much it sounded like an automated response, they pretty much responded in the exact same way. Apparently Ebay let’s the other person know that you tattle-tell’d on 'em, because he emailed me and told me he didn’t do anything wrong and that I was a fuckhead and that I was wrong to email Ebay and say anything at all.
After all is said and done… it seems apparent that Ebay allows this to happen and there really aren’t any rules against it. This means that I can post an item without posting the shipping price, lie about the shipping price if anyone asks, and then raise it after the buyer purchases the item.
Fortunately neither of us left any feedback for each other so I still have 100% positive.
Quick question: What’s the best way to exchange feedback?
Personally, I always wait for the other person first. If I’m the buyer, I always send a message with my payment saying, “Thanks for the service, please leave positive feedback and I will do the same for you when I receive the item.” Personally, I think this is how it should be done. The seller should leave feedback immediately after getting paid, especially if the payment was prompt. However, most do not. If the transaction goes over smoothly, then I just leave positive feedback and email them letting them know I did. I usually get the same treatment immediately after that.
If you are a seller and you stand behind your product, then you should have no problem leaving positive feedback for someone who pays promptly. The only reason you would hold back is if you know your product is shit and you want to prevent the buyer from leaving negative feedback because they’ll know you’ll retaliate with the same.
However, if a seller encounters a horrible buyer, he risks getting negative feedback if he leaves negative feedback for that buyer.
I hate this part of ebay, just do your research and hope for the best it seems. Also, never ever bid on an item that does not have some kind of shipping listed on the page itself. You might just get screwed over. I think you can take these things to court, but who wants to take someone to court over 40 bucks?
BTW, I’ve been reading the boards for years now and have never posted. I finally coughed up my $14.95 to respond once in a while. I have lots ‘o’ questions for you guys. 
Art
Welcome to the sdmb! Regarding the first part of your post about a seller who reneged on a deal, the reality is that eBay cannot force a seller to sell something to you, especially if no money has changed hands. Your only weapon is a negative feedback (with a nasty comment) for the idiot seller. However, the seller could leave a negative feedback for you in retaliation. So what I do is wait until day 89 or as close to day 90 as I can get before laying the negative feedback on a bad seller. After day 90, the seller cannot leave any feedback for you. There are other ways to extract revenge on the seller, but I’m not going down that road.
Your question about the best way to exchange feedback … I always leave positive feedback for a seller (note that I’m strictly a buyer) after I’ve received the eBay item and it passes inspection. If I’m not 100% happy, I contact the seller about it and sometimes some kind of adjustment to the deal is made (partial refund, replacement, other freebie). If the seller makes a reasonable gesture to right the deal, positive feedback ensues. Otherwise, I just don’t leave any feedback at all. I tend to shy away from leaving negative feedback unless the seller has ripped me off bad (only has happened to me once). I’d love to receive positive feedback from every seller for whom I’ve left positive feedback, but that doesn’t always happen. I do agree that the seller should leave positive feedback as soon as he/she has received payment in full from the buyer. At that point, the buyer has fulfilled his/her end of the deal.
Thanks for the info, I had no clue about the 90 day thing. It’s been much longer than 90 days so it’s good to know for the future. I think I would still be scared that the seller would see it and leave me negative feedback at the last moment though.
I’m not going to link to the auction, but the item was a Movado Eliro. The seller had a 98% positive feedback rating. He was auctioning off others at the time going in the $ 350’s. Picture looked like an Eliro.
When I received the item, it looked convincing - if it hadn’t been for the fact that I could compare it to an Eliro I already own. It was also missing the numbers typically found on a Movado case.
Net, net: I believe I had a contract for a genuine Movado Eliro. He ships a copy, and seemingly intended to do so from the start. I believe that’s fraud. If it is, can I file a police report?
I don’t just want my money back. It is my contention that if Ebay fraud victims don’t go further than that, fraud will continue to spread - there is no downside. Just look at it: lil’ crook buys a gross of fake brand watches at 8 bucks each, sells them for 200, and on the ones where he gets caught, buyer sends them back at their expense - for lil’ crook to sell again!
There need to be consequences for this kind of crap.
One note: draining your Paypal account won’t help you, because if the chargeback is reversed, Paypal will send you to collections, for “their” money. Whether or not it’ll go further than that, i don’t know.
You can file all types of fraud complains, even take the guy to small claims court. The question is, and what these guys count on is whether or not it worth it, for you or law enforcement. Also he has pausible deniability, PROVE he knew he was selling fakes…98% rating is pretty good for a guy selling fake watches. However if he returns your money, you have been made whole; there’s been no real harm to you…especially if he claims he was a victim of his wholesaler. Good luck proving fraud. The smart thieves ALWAYS get their item back and refund your money.
If you paid with a credit card, you MUST contact PayPal FIRST. They will either accept or deny your claim. Once they give their ruling, you’re free to contact your credit card vendor and do the chargeback for goods not as described or whatever term they use for receiving fake items. What would be really good would be to take the watch to an authorized dealer and have him write a note, detailing that the item is fake and fax it to Paypal.
You can then send the note to your buyer, explaining that, You’re sure he wasn’t “aware”, but the item is fake and you would like a refund. If he balks, do the chargeback. That should be enough to kick start his self-preservation instinct. If he’s an “honest” seller, he should offer to pay for the return. You should be able to pull his “contact” info and give him a call once you have PROOF it’s a fake.
As far as paying for return shipping, that’s a line in the sand you have to cross yourself. You most likely will not receive any funds until you return the item, so you have to decide if the unfairness of paying to return a fraudulent item is worth not getting your money back.
Good luck.
I see a big flaw in that plan.
What if I own a fake movado eliro (I actually own a nice vizio 
), and I want con somebody to exchange it for a real one? I’m not saying you’re doing this isosleepy, but the seller could claim this. He could simply say that he definitely sent you a real movado and that YOU are trying to scam HIM by sending him a fake watch and getting your money back. I work in jewelry retail and people do try this from time to time. They’ll often buy a nice movado from one store and then try to return a fake movado to another store. With us, it’s easy. But with ebay, it’s hard to prove which of you guys is the true scammer.
A good way to prevent watch fraud is to make sure beforehand what the EXACT WORDING is on the bottom of the watch dial. Most movados say “swiss MOVADO quartz,” but some do vary. Find out from a local reputable retailer what the real watch says. I’m not saying there aren’t fake watches with the exact same print on the dial, but in my experience it’s always different.
Art
I had a similar problem a couple of months ago. I dropped my cell phone in the toilet (lame, I know) and I didn’t have insurance on it. I didn’t want to shell out $150 for a new one so I found one on ebay.
In the auction it was listed as the same brand of phone as mine, and the same service provider (US Cellular). The seller claimed that the phone was in good condition and came with the box and a charger. I paid $60 for it with the “Buy it Now” option.
Well, I got the phone a few days later. Totally different model, not US Cellular, and it came in a Motorola box (and it wasn’t a Motorola). I took it to the US Cellular place and they told me that it wouldn’t work.
Try as I might, the person who sold it to me would NOT give me my money back. I pointed it out to him that he listed the auction wrong and he wouldn’t listen. I told him he could have his phone back if he sent me the money. No go. Contacted Ebay and they were of no help. The guy even had the nerve to tell me that he was housebound and couldn’t leave to get a money order to pay me back (but he was conveniently able to leave the house to cash the money order that I had given him, and was also able to go to his mothers house to use the internet because he said he didn’t have it at his house). A month later, after threatening to call the cops and file a report, the guy finally sent me 30 dollars back and told me I could keep the phone. I kind of lost out on that deal but at least I didn’t get totally shafted.
So maybe you could let the seller know that you are not going to let it go and you WILL get authorities involved. I don’t know if they could actually help, but maybe the threat of it will do the trick.
Update:
After 2 months, got full refund from PayPal. Took much doing, though.