I’ve never posted to any of these message board melodramas before, but somehow this one needs a reponse.
Mullinator is 100% right. The anti-Ed faction constantly complains that Ed is bad at public relations and unnecessarily or unintentionally comes off like a hardass at times. In the past, he’s refrained from most non-official posts, which may have had something to do with the impression that he’s this aloof dictator. Yet, in the last few days, both on this board and Opal’s, he’s been making more non-official posts than I’ve ever seen before, with a much more easy-going tone. Why don’t those who criticized Ed as remote think that this is a good thing?
And, as Mullinator says, I really don’t see anything illegal or evil in his post. Certainly, under the standards generally followed on this board, it had nothing unusual.
The law may be different in Canada, but Gaudere pretty correctly summarized the law here. There’s no law that says you’re free from unpleasant comments from everyone you might happen to meet. It ain’t sexual harassment. And it ain’t slander, because . . .
No, he did not, except to say that assuming her “lover” was a “boyfriend” was an unwarranted assumption on his part – which, when you think about it, it would be. And, for what it’s worth, I didn’t read this and think “lesbian!” anyway; I read it and thought that Ed was saying that a person with whom one is having sex may not necessarily rate the title of “boyfriend” or “girlfriend” if the relationship is not a committed one – which, again, these days you can never assume.
If there’s nothing wrong with it, why wouldn’t it be a cool thing to say? What if he had said, “Kelli’s boyfriend (or girlfriend, as the case may be)”? There’s that same insinuation that she might be a lesbian – as might I or you or anyone (female) who posts here. You can’t assume somone is, but you no longer can assume someone is not, which is all Ed said.
First warning for what? This is his party, and he can issue warnings because he has the power to throw people out of it. You have the power to do bubkes here, just like the rest of us.
The real tragedy is that so many of the “patrons” are so ready and even eager to find insults where obviously none were intended. Every word is scrutinized for possible offense. We’re lucky the mods and administrators take the time to actually participate meaningfully here, though with the ungrateful and hostile reaction they seem to get every time they even try to be friendly, God knows why they bother.
They’re “mods” and “admins” because they set the site up and are running it. If the patrons left en masse, that would certainly be a problem, but it’s not going to happen because most of us like it here and don’t just wait around to jump down the throat of our hosts at the slightest provocation.
I find it inviting, and interesting, and entertaining, because I don’t read every post, no matter how innocuous, as holding some vicious insult. So speak for yourself.
SATAN, in chorus, says:
Jesus, not this again. Even if you hold Ed to a higher standard, there’s no grave insult in what he said. But any excuse to revive the whole Melin thing, right?
Because he went over and pissed in their nest in the name of “harmless fun,” and indirectly lead to the Board being spammed when they figured it out and gave this Board a taste of what they had been experiencing. A little “harmless fun” you participated in as well, I believe. But feel free to resurrect this dead horse as well, even though it has fuck-all to do with this subject.
Yes. But what he said was not the grevious insult you and Drain and Kelli apparently read it to be. He has an obligation, I think, to refrain from insulting his guests; he doesn’t have an obligation to ensure that no one takes an innocuous comment the wrong way.
The real tragedy here, I think, is that this thread was an example of Ed being genuinely friendly and participatory on the Board. If I were him and saw my reception from certain quarters, hell would freeze over before I tried it again. And there’d be damn little incentive for me to keep fostering or defending a Board that has become a forum I can’t even participate in without people flipping shit at me. Jesus H. Christ, not everything posted here is a direct, personal, grevious insult; and it’s counterproductive to all of us for people to assume that it is.
I personally didn’t see a suggestion of lesbianism. One can be heterosexual and have a lover of the opposite sex. “Boyfriend” implies a committed relationship. In a heterosexual relationship, having a “lover” usually means that there’s someone you have sex with from time to time, but it’s not a permanent thing. Just my take on it.
Anyway, I enjoyed Ed’s post immensely, especially the group hug. I feel all warm & fuzzy inside now!
Cristi, Slayer of Peeps
I made my husband join a bridge club. He jumps next Tuesday.
I can’t believe I’m hearing this. While I’m busy composing my previous post, apparently the floodgates have opened and there are threats of lawsuits being flung around.
Ed Zotti makes a FLIPPANT remark–not a “harassing” remark, or even an “insulting” remark, but a plain ordinary garden-variety flippant remark, the kind that, even as we speak, teenagers all across America are spouting to their parents without fear of legal retribution, and SUDDENLY HIS ASS IS GRASS, AND KELLIBELLI’S THE LAWNMOWER?!
Give me a BREAK, people. If I weren’t also lacking a life, I’d tell you all to “get a life”.
:rolleyes:
Sheesh, and double sheesh.
“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen
Putting aside whether the comment is or is not subject to legal action, and I don’t think kellibelli said that she was interested in that, just in an apology, isn’t insult in the eyes of the beholder? Ed said something that kellibelli apparently found greatly offensive. Why rag on her for that? What’s so difficult about Ed coming in and saying I’m sorry if what I said offended you, I didn’t mean to? Why do you all seem to think that kellibelli should just ignore it, rather than that Ed should simply say “gosh, I’m sorry?”
What I found offensive about it, though not to the point of getting quite so upset about it, is the insinuation that kellibelli has been acting in a given manner because she hasn’t been getting oral sex. Isn’t that something that men always joke about, that women are uptight because they don’t get enough sex?
Goldie
Gentlemen certainly DO prefer blondes –
and with good reason!
24K - You said what I wanted to. In the interest of keeping board harmony here, couldn’t Ed just offer an apology and let this die? No matter what anyone thinks, kelli was offended. Quite honestly, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. We weren’t mentioned by name in the post.
And please folks…where was a lawsuit brought up? kelli asked for an apology, or she’d write a letter. Not file a lawsuit. And I’m with 24K on one last thing…personally, I’m semi-offended that standing up for yourself is taken as someone needing “more sex.” Please. :rolleyes:
Before I post again, I want to be clear that none of this should be taken as insulting Kellibelli, whom I like and respect as a poster. But:
Because while an insult is in the eye of the beholder, over-reaction is, too. If I say, “Y’know, Goldie, for all I know, you might be (gasp!) gay” (even assuming that’s what Ed meant) and you say “Pistols at dawn!” people might reasonably believe you’ve overreacted to an innocuous comment. Shoot, people are so willing to insult each other for real around here, in the most explicit language, it seems a shame to presume an insult where one may not have been intended.
And Ed has e-mail, where Kellibelli could have taken it up with him privately. Or she could have explained why she found the comment insulting in reasonable language. Instead, she posts “public apology by dawn or I report you to your superiors!” With all due respect to Kelli, I think that’s a major over-reaction.
I don’t mean to rag on her for that – honestly. It just pisses me off that certain posters always have their knives out for the moderators and administrators, when it seems obvious to me that a person who isn’t happy with how things are run around her can best express that by leaving.
Here we get into human nature. If a person says “Look, what you said really hurt and offended me, and this is why,” an apology may easily be offered. If a person is threatened (apologize or I tell your boss), the words can stick in the throat. And even I am disinclined to apologize for comments that were not intended to be insulting and which can only be construed as insulting by reading them in the most negative way. Why should I apologize for that?
I don’t think anyone has suggested she should ignore it if she felt insulted by it, but she could have expressed that privately, or in a way that did not presume the insult was an intentional one, when a reasonable reading of the comment could indictate it was not. But what bugs me is not her reaction, which I must respect if I don’t fully agree with, but the willingness of bitchers and moaners to then leap into the fray and chew Ed’s ass for him over something that’s none of their damn business, complete with the upteenth revival of moldy old dramas that apparently cannot be put to rest.
I want to make it very clear that I am not talking about Kellibelli here. I would not want to insult her (and I’m not including a smilie, because I’m serious).
Jodi, your points are good as far as they go, but you didn’t address my last paragraph. Have you never been on the receiving end of the leer from a man along with the comment that if only you were getting more sex – from him, of course – you wouldn’t be so (fill in the blank: bitchy, uptight, frozen, feisty, independent, and so on, usually in the face of strength or assertiveness from the woman)? I have and it isn’t fun. THAT’S the way I read Ed’s comment, not involving being gay or anything like that, but that he was commenting on kellibelli’s lack of oral sex as contributing to her recent behavior which has included taking a break from this board after the latest Melin thing. And that offends me, and from what I read here it sounds like it offended kellibelli, too. And given that what I’ve read from you makes it sound like you are a strong woman, I’m surprised it doesn’t offend you too.
Goldie
Gentlemen certainly DO prefer blondes –
and with good reason!
I had nothing to contribute to this new mess of Ed’s.
Just a thought:Why don’t you moderators just delete the posts that offend and then not make a big deal of it? The Wally thing is about the only thing so far that made posters friendlier to the administrators.
I have a kid that behaves like this board. He does not take punishment well, so mostly we reward good performance.
Actually, no guy has ever made that sort of comment to me – not while he was within arm’s length. Make of that what you will.
But, see, I didn’t read it that way. By my count there are at least three ways to read the comment, and even Kelli’s other supporters (Drain and Satan) didn’t read the “insult” the way you did.
Again, I’m not taking issue with Kelli’s right to be insulted. I just don’t think the comment was necessarily meant to be an insult. And I think she might have handled it differently (though she of course has to handle it as she sees fit). And, most importantly, to me, I don’t like to see a personal dispute turned into the 900th chorus of “gosh, the administration of this message board sucks” – not that Kelli herself has contributed to this.
Goldie, if I’d read it that way, it might have offended me. But I didn’t. And I don’t feel obliged to read it that way now.
Actually, I did read it that way, I just thought it was so obvious that it didn’t deserve mention. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth, especially when you accuse Kelli, Satan, and I of doing the same to Ed.
Drain Bead and I had what is called a “simulpost.” There was no parroting as you put it. I was unaware we were both posting, and I really don’t care if you think othewise.
You claim that I bring up old news. Well, I think that past decisions are what you base things on, right? I mean, even the dumbest lawyer knows that past decisions and outcomes do indeed mean “fuck-all” to current dilemmas.
Also, you are right - I was involved in the thing that David B got in trouble with. Which was my exact point: Moderators are held to a higher standard. Unless you are debating that, and that alone, then YOU are the person whom is bringing up things which mean “fuck-all” to the issue here.
Also, you presume to interpret how I took Ed’s comments. I believe in my one post on the subject, I said nothing about anything that Ed said, only that the standards are higher for a moderator. Again, what you bring up means “fuck-all” to that.
For the record, I merely replied to something that Gaudere seemed to not take into consideration (had she not posted what she did, I would not have said a word, as this is not about me).
I never said whether Ed was right or wrong, or whether kellibelli was right or wrong. That’s between them. I just threw something out there to consider, that’s all.
And if Ed is not held to a higher standard, even in the face of what he has done with other moderators, you would not hear me complain one bit. Rules get changed here all the time, and Ed is not a moderator, and therefore accountable to nobody, really.
In other words, quit making assumptions about me or where I stand. You would be wrong, which is not surprising. After all, you know “fuck-all” about me.
As for Punditlisa:
As usual, nothing positive to say. I can’t recall a single positive post out of the bitter, wretched creature in many months. My guess is that she just isn’t getting enough good sex (from whatever “partner” she has fooled into thinking she is actually a human being).
And since I am not a moderator, and NOT held to the aforementioned higher standard, I can say this all I want.
TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Three days, 22 hours, 43 minutes and 32 seconds.
157 cigarettes not smoked, saving $19.73.
Life saved: 13 hours, 5 minutes.
Well, since we’re in the Pit now… I’ll try to remain polite for a change.
Cut Ed some slack. Finally, he’s showing some humourous thoughts in MPSIMS (granted, not really all that civil towards every poster), and he’s getting beat to death over it.
I for one think we’ve had enough of those looooooooong threads on what and what not a moderator/administrator can do on these boards.
On a personal note, I knew that the Kellibelli remark was gonna be trouble the moment I read it. I’m sure Ed was just trying to be funny, and meant nothing serious. Sure, it was a little stab, but nothing to bleed to death from.
Leave the man alone. He’s got a message board to run, and god knows it’s been a handfull these last few weeks.
Cheers, Ed.
(And since we’re in the Pit… fuckety fuckerfuck fuck fuckety fuckfuck.)
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