EEOC complaint against Amazon for disparate treatment of women drivers

Without removing your pants, like males do?

Be more flexible about breaks.

Well, the pants do have to come partway down, as usual in female urination unless one’s using a Shewee-type device such as @Dinsdale mentioned, but I assume that if this is happening in the back of a closed truck then privacy isn’t an issue. Actually removing the pants is entirely unnecessary and would be far more trouble than it’s worth.

How about requiring that Amazon trucks have to be equipped with a small portable waterless toilet in the back, like a camping toilet? Convenient for all genders and doesn’t take up much room at all.

The issue is that any drivers, male or female, have schedules that necessitate peeing in a bottle in the first place, not how easy a time women do or do not have adjusting their clothing to perform the task.

Absolutely not. Female menstrual bodily functions happen when they happen, often/usually with no warning. Maybe you shouldn’t talk about something you clearly know nothing about.

Also, your 10-15 minute break times are meant to sit and relax, make a phone call, etc, not race to the bathroom and back. Or do you only use the bathroom at your assigned break time?

Expecting someone to regularly squat down to piss or shit without a seat and then be sure not to splatter their clothes is absurd. Congrats that you’re so good at it.

Um, well, it’s… the wide-mouthed jar thing. I don’t think I’m going to be able to explain the details of this procedure without a TMI breach.

But no, no special skills for splatter avoidance required.

How would the customers feel about people peeing and popping amongst their merchandise especially if they can’t wash their hands properly?

I guess whatever way they feel now about male drivers stepping into the back of the truck to pee into a bottle?

Again, I think an actual portable toilet in the back of the truck would make the process both easier for all drivers and less potentially hazardous to the parcels. And yeah, hand sanitizer should be mandatory in this situation.

You need to wash your hands, not slap sanitizer on top of what’s on them.

I guarantee I wouldn’t be as pristine as you.

This reminds me of my old hospital getting a Hill-Rom system ca. 2000, which tracks nurses’ movements, and (this wasn’t the only place it happened) they were doing things like writing nurses up for going to the bathroom “too many times” on their shifts.

“They ordered from Amazon, didn’t they? What were they expecting?”

OK - this took an immediate turn I did not expect (but probably should have). Carry on as you wish.

This is very true, and absolutely best policy.

However, this situation is a bit of a “wicked problem” even in the best circumstances. Prolonged variable-route driving is always going to be a challenge for the efficient planning of sufficient restroom stops. Drivers can’t be sure from one day to the next what public restrooms are going to be available to them at what points on their route, and can’t guarantee that their elimination needs are going to conform to any given fixed schedule on any given day. So when building into the schedule allocated restroom stop intervals, there are always going to be suboptimal trade-offs between allowing more time than the driver needs, and not allowing for enough.

For the driver of a closed van or truck that affords at least adequate privacy, being able to take care of emergency elimination in the cargo space is obviously not an ideal solution, but at least it’s necessary to have as a last resort. I still think that the least worst situation is a clean, accessible and well-secured waterless “camping toilet”-style receptacle as a mandatory amenity in the cargo space.

Yes, hand sanitizer isn’t as good as handwashing, but it’s better than nothing, and probably good enough to prevent significantly increased health hazard in parcel handling. (There’s also the option of portable handwash stations carried in the cargo area, which could be as simple as a water urn and soap dispenser that the driver could set up on the edge of the cargo area floor with the door open to let the water fall into the street, since privacy isn’t as crucial for handwashing as for toilet use.)

I mean, realistically, what more workable and 100% dependable solution is there, for drivers who simply can’t know in advance on any given day exactly when or where they’re going to be able to, or will need to, use a public restroom?

Trust your drivers and let them stop when they need to

Sure, but if they can’t always get to an available public restroom when they need one? Or if they’re doing a rural delivery and start busting for a pee when they’d have to retrace their route 15-20 minutes to reach the nearest restroom facility, thus chipping 30-40 minutes out of their delivery schedule?

Prolonged variable-route driving is just intrinsically a difficult situation to fit in adequate and efficiently planned restroom use opportunities. I think a reliable and safe emergency backup plan is well warranted.

This has nothing to do with the EEOC complaint. You may as well be arguing against the complainant. The point is that an emergency backup plan is just that, and shouldn’t be considered standard operating procedure. Especially during times of the month where extra bathroom trips may be necessary.

Yup, no argument that what I’ve been saying is more advocating for a general improvement of driver amenities than addressing the specific claims of gender discrimination in the EEOC complaint discussed in the OP.

Yeah, that’s kind of an issue - menstruation is never talked about. Yet it’s something adult women do monthly for decades. Crotch bleeding is a real issue for women, no we can’t “hold it” :roll_eyes: and yes I have heard men request that women do that. Because it’s never talked about and men (mostly) remain ignorant about it.

I am a woman who has been blessed to be able to hold my pee for longer than the average woman. I currently work in a job where we, too, have two 15 minute breaks and a 1/2 hour for lunch BUT - and this is important - our toilets are a literal two minute walk for us, not something we have to seek out during our break time, and if we need an “emergency” break to deal with bodily functions we can get one (it requires a live body to swap into our position to keep customers happy, and management will even do that for a few minutes if they have to because there isn’t anyone else available at the moment). Which is actually a HUGE difference.

Yes, on average women have to pee more often than men. Why? I don’t know. I do know that if we’re wearing pants it takes us longer to pee due to wardrobe considerations. Most women can not reliably pee into a bottle, at least not without a funnel. Women can not, as a general rule, park their delivery van next to a wall and “whip it out” to pee on said wall if they’re really desperate. But hell, people should not be put in positions where “peeing in a bottle” is proposed as a serious “solution” to physical needs. What next? Suggesting delivery drivers wear adult diapers?

^ This.

I once had a job where the crew assignment involved installing toilets. Needless to say, the job site did not have working toilets. Yes, I’ve peed in a Big Gulp cup. It was a solution forced by the job. It’s like how elevator repair guys have to climb a lot of stairs because there’s no working elevator. Nonetheless, the normal expectation is that jobs in tall buildings (or even not-so-tall buildings) are accessed by elevators, and it’s also a normal expectation that workers can pee in toilets and not bottle, jars, cups, funnels, etc. Delivery drivers should be allowed access to toilets and not told to piss in the back of the van. Unless the van has an actual toilet of some sort installed.

You still don’t get it - menstruation does NOT occur on a schedule! You can’t “hold it”. You could attend to all bathroom matters prior to climbing into a van and sitting in the drivers’ seat, then an hour later a big clot or gush comes down the pipe and overwhelms your planned (based on prior experience and expectations) “defense” and threatens to soak through underwear, pants, and the seat you are sitting on if you don’t do something right now to clean up and change out whatever you’re using to catch the mess. That’s why women’s toilets so often feature emergency menstrual supplies - because even the most experienced woman can be faced with unexpected or unscheduled or heavier than normal “flow”.

No, women and rigidly scheduled bathroom breaks are not always compatible due to actual physical differences between men and women.

This is leaving aside that childbirth can also impact a woman’s urinary habits, from frequency to diminished bladder capacity to less ability to “hold it”. I have two women co-workers with a doctor’s note that they have a real, physical need to pee more often than our normal work schedule (1 break every 2 hours) allows. We accommodate that. The world does not end because they need to pee every 90 minutes, we just figure out how to make that work (it also helps they’re quick about it and clearly not taking advantage of this). Yet women who have given birth to children and suffered long-term consequences from doing so still typically are expected to work in our society. This isn’t just an “old woman” problem, young women who have given birth can experience these problems, too.

Just because there’s a hypothetical woman out there who have given birth eight times, can hold her pee six hours, and pee into the neck of a beer bottle with accuracy does not mean we should base work rules for the average woman on such an outlier.