The Republicans you refer to in the first paragraph are distinct from the Republicans you refer to in the second and third paragraphs. If you think your average Republican has any cognizance of gerrymandering and voter-suppression, I think you are wrong.
~Max
If they aren’t calling him out, they ARE supporting him.
ETA. Ninja’d.
And if you support Donald Trump, you aren’t an American?
~Max
Bingo! He gets it!
Not a good one, anyway. I don’t care if you fought in two wars and have a chest full of medals, if you voted for the fascist then you sure don’t love democracy and you don’t love the nation that pretends to cherish it.
“To make progress, we must stop treating our opponents as our enemy. We are not enemies. We are Americans.”
Guess the source? ETA: (no cheating! 
)
~Max
Good for him. He’s entitled to his viewpoint. And he’s right, in way, but right now, the people who are trying to subvert democracy are not my allies or innocent bystanders. They are my enemies and I will work to defeat them so they cannot achieve their goals.
This situation meaning this election?
~Max
Biden now has 6 million more votes than Trump. A majority. 51% to 47.2%. Some claim the popular vote doesn’t matter, but they’re wrong. America chose Biden, clearly and cleanly. Sure, a couple of states were close in the anachronistic and anti-democratic electoral college. So what? If Trump had managed a mere plurality, he’d have a tiny argument. But any attempt to subvert this clear mandate is obscene.
Go home, Trump. You’re a loser who lost.
There is absolutely no excuse - none - to identify as a Republican unless you are staunchly, vociferously, vocally against Trump and his attempt to destroy American democracy. I know so many conservatives that have stood up for what’s right despite the fact that it has brought them personal hardship, that I have little sympathy or interest in those who don’t. Anyone who does not speak up is complicit in propping up an authoritarian. Thus the vast majority of Republicans in congress are complete cowards.
Max S. was also referring to asahi’s new avatar — but I stand by my assertion that there’s no argument anymore about whether it is possible to vote for Trump or any of his Republican enablers and yet claim any sort of allegiance to basic American values.
The last lawsuit in AZ just got tossed, so there are no more pending suits in the state.
Whatever Mahoney decided, the case — involving only two ballots — would not have changed the outcome of the election.
Well played. “American” can mean various things. I assume Joe was generously giving 71 million traitors a chance to come back to being Americans, when they’re ready.
In short, he’s optimistic that people can change. Maybe he’s right. I hope so.
(Okay, “71 million traitors” was a little strong. How about “71 million traitor enablers and supporters”?)
Trumpism, our unique form of proto-fascism.
Max, since the real world analogy was, by your admittance, beyond your understanding, allow me to simplify it:
I cast a vote to kill you, a fellow countryman. Am I a friend or foe?
Ceteris paribus, Foe.
~Max
Seems unlikely, since they were willing to go along with every other evil thing Trump did until COVID-19.
But let’s say they are. You’ve now moved on to defending Trump supporters. And we know they want to get rid of democracy, since Trump flat out said he was going to try and defraud the vote. He crippled the mail service. He admitted he wanted a third term. He said he would not peacefully transfer power. And he’s actively right now trying to overturn a democratic election.
So, if someone still supports Trump after all this, they are against democracy. And since America is a democracy, they are against America.
It’s not us making them the enemy. They are choosing to side against America themselves, just like Trump is doing by trying to subvert our electoral process.
Trump supporters are un-American, because they’ve given up on American values like fair elections and democracy. They want to install a dictator.
It doesn’t follow.
~Max
It clearly does. If you support someone who says he’s going to subvert the electoral process and is currently in the process of doing so, then you by definition support subverting the electoral process. And subverting the electoral process is attacking a democracy.
That’s what it means to support someone—you support their actions. A Trump supporter is someone who continues to support Trump’s actions.
In our best mold, America is an idea, not a nation founded upon an ethnic identity of peoples who have been here since anyone can remember. And if you refuse to share those ideals… in Democracy, the Rule of Law, of fairness and honesty (both of which are crucial to the smooth functioning of a capitalist system, according to Friedman and Rand)… than you are denouncing your own Americaness.
In fact, it is an oath to these ideals, and to the document(s) which express them, which allows one to become an American.
America is a state of mind, shaped by the ideals of 1776 and the Enlightenment, and if you refuse to share these ideals, you refuse to be an American.
If by “their actions” you mean “all of their actions”, I disagree in principle, and we can end this tangent on that disagreement.
~Max