246810-
In all honesty, that was one of the dumbest things I’ve read in months. I’m not just saying that for effect, it was truly one of the most idiotic things I have read in a while. I’m speechless… Don’t judge the Bible? Whether you are the Pope or an atheist or anywhere in between, you better judge something you devote your life to. You owe it to yourself be be skeptical. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Eve, I REALLY would like to ask you some questions directly because what you are saying makes so much sense to me and I wanted to get your take on a couple of other things that I’m struggling with. If you have the time, please email me -
yankee@carolina.rr.com
Well, when you get to the point where you feel lost and don’t know who to turn to just remember that God is there. How do you explain your peace or your love or all the love that you get from your family and friends, would you kill them if it meant you would be more safe, or more wealthy. If you wouldn’t, why not.
This earth will end, for everyone of us. What do you think is going to happen? You’ll either go on living in the love of God, or you will spend eternity in confusion.
So there is no Hell?
(confusion) “Hey, wheres Hell? I’m supposed to be there? I can’t find my way? Hello? Anyone there? Where AM I?”…
’ . . . would you kill them if it meant you would be more safe, or more wealthy. If you wouldn’t, why not."
246810, you don’t mean you would go on a murder and robbery spree if not for your religious beliefs! As an atheist, I never go on murder and robbery sprees.
. . . Well, okay, depends on your definition of “spree,” I guess . . .
One might also argue that prayer, or more broadly, religion, got E.S. in trouble in the first place. I’m making some assumptions here, so I could be wrong, but let’s assume that her family was very religious. She’s at an impressionable age, and her community of elders has impressed on her the power of God and the reality of religious belief. Could this be part of the reason she was able to internalize the nutty beliefs of this Emmanuel character? We’ll never know, but she might have had more of a defnense against this “brainwashing” were she brought up to question religion and think more for herself.
Just trying to look at this whole thing from all perspectives.
246810, you’re attributing only the good in the world to god. If he is all-powerful, he also has to answer for all the bad in the world. Why does he pick and choose who is to live and die? What are his criteria?
I have wondered myself whether Elizibeths religious upbringing caused her to be more sympathetic to what she was hearing from her abductors. Perhaps a child that had been raised to be a little more sceptical wouldn’t have been so quick to accept the word of someone who said that angels talked to him. Rather, she might have seen him for the psycho that he is and spent more time trying to find a way to escape.
I, of course, don’t blame her for anything. She was a confused child who probably had no idea what to believe and was taken advantage of because of that fact. A child cannot be expected to know decisively which person is telling them the “truth” about their religious beliefs. I’m sure her kidnapper was VERY convincing and seemed sincere in his convictions.
Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere down the road, the mere thought of religion leaves a bitter taste in her mouth.
I wouldn’t blame a sheltered, 14 yr old girl either. And I wouldn’t blame the parents for instilling their religious beliefs, but I would place some blame on them for bringing several questionable characters into their home. There are plenty of ways to help the “needy” w/o putting your family at risk.
I’m sure her parents had the very best intentions for their daughter. I wasn’t trying to imply blame. I’m just trying to say that she might not have had the skills to determine that her kidnapper wasn’t a prophet, like he professed and her upbringing might have had some impact on that.
The only blame should be on the people that held her captive for 9 months.
Clearly the kidnappers are the criminals, but don’t you think the parents were acting recklessly by allowing men of questionable character into their home? Do you think they will continue to offer handyman employment to panhandlers?
Well, vanilla, All lot of times I think of hell as being total confusion, Just like what Satan tries to do on the earth, (and succeeds sometimes). Eve, No I don’t mean that, but if we didn’t have God and his commandments there would be no reason not to do those things. Answer me this, why don’t you go on killing spree’s? Eve? Kalhoun, how and what do you judge good and bad by, do you think it was bad that Jesus Christ died on the cross. I don’t, it sure looked bad for his disciples I’m sure, but it helped to whole world. I believe that God does things that help the world, and the individual people, even if it looks bad at that moment. Of coarse I do not have it all figure out in my brain. But I know there is so much more understanding of things, that we cannot even see.
Gods word says John 3:16 ¶"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Hey, 246810, if you have an hour or so, you might want to take a look at this past thread to get a sense of why your witnessing isn’t likely to be well-received here.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking you for your beliefs, or suggesting you should go elsewhere, or whatever. We have any number of well-respected members — beloved, even — who wear their faith quite publicly, and bring a valuable religious perspective to our discussions.
My point is only that one-dimensional witnessing doesn’t generally get a good response here, for whatever reason, as you’re starting to see in this thread. We much prefer our participants to be full, well-rounded people we can get to know as individuals, not interchangeable automated post generators.
Go over to Cafe Society, and tell us about the movies you’ve seen recently, or something. It’ll help your tenure on this board, seriously. And I hope you take this advice with the honestly good intention with which it’s offered.
Well, to me (an atheist) this approach has a problem.
Where does the concept that God doesn’t interfere with free will fit in this explanation? That is, if God doesn’t usurp the free will of the auto mechanic you mention, causing him to take that road where the stranded motorist is praying for help, then how is it that God “arranges” these coincidences?
Maybe the choice of road seems like a trivial matter, but it could be equally trivial for God to give an “impulse” to a would-be kidnapper to just not decide to perform a kidnapping on some particular day.
The standard explaination is that God won’t do this because the kidnapper has free will. Fine, but then how is it that the auto mechanic is “arranged” to take a left turn in order to help a motorist, when by his own habit and free will, he would have taken a right turn to get to work on time?
Maybe it’s okay because the auto mechanic is a “good” human being, willing to let God manipulate him. But then, there’s no reason to believe the would-be kidnapper is evil until he actually performs the kidnapping, is there? So if God would intervene, say, give him an “impulse” to visit church that day, he wouldn’t turn out to be evil at all, would he?
I think it was poor judgement, especially concerning the circumstances. But, it isn’t like they left the kids unattended with this man.
The father made a comment that he had been working on the roof with the kidnapper and thought him to be very kind and soft-spoken. It was maybe a poor case of judgement but the Smarts were trying to do something nice for someone that appeared to need help. I’m not so sure that is reckless endangerment
Let me ask this to all of you?
Do you believe in god?
Let me ask this to all of you?
Do you believe in god?
Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
No and no.
ditto and ditto.
There are many different people here with many different beliefs. You will find some that share yours and some that do not. Stick around and you will quickly find out who those people are. There are many Christians here who are wonderful people, and many athiests who are also wonderful. It’s a nice mix and makes for good conversation.
If I may make a suggestion, you might want to read Cervaise’s post again, rather than hijack this thread by asking what everyone believes. Just a thought. He/She offers very good advice. Great Debates might not be the best place to get your feet wet here.
And welcome to the SDMB, by the way. 