Well, I experienced a tiny inner “ouch” when I came across the C word in a thread title; I think of that word as a kind of Nuclear Option to be reserved for actual emergencies. Knowing the word receives a different reception in places that speak American with funny accents (England, Australia), however, I usually absorb the shock as a “my problem” kind of thing when I see it here. I think Ellis Dee overreacted to an extreme extreme; the language was way over the top in proportion to the “offense” being pitted. Nonetheless, absent a specific policy, I’m surprised that he was suspended, rather than spoken to. Unless there’s a history of warnings I’m not familiar with. Still, “suspended” isn’t “banned.” So there’s that.
If a question is asked in one of these threads (or in ATMB), is it likely that it will get answered by a moderator if it is polite and addresses a specific point in whatever debate?
The reason I ask is this in all honest curiousity… Does an apology, especially one ‘unprompted,’ make any difference when deciding on the fate of Dopers who have transgressed? It was my understanding that even former members that had been banned, if willing to try to mend their ways and are sincere in their efforts, can possibly be re-instated. That sometimes being the case, why was Ellis suspended if he did all that up front and of his own accord?
hell has frozen over.
Hmm. After further consideration, and reading the ATMB thread on this subject, I have to say I’ve changed my mind a bit.
When a member becomes a moderator, they suddenly become something of a lightning rod: they’re required to confront problems that arise on the boards, and don’t have the option most of us have of just ignoring it and moving on to another thread. In doing this–if they do it right–they’re going to piss a few people off now and then. If part of the job description is you have to meekly subject yourself to whatever abuse a member who’s been confronted wants to heap on you–no matter how egregious or extreme–just for doing your job–well, I for one wouldn’t want the job.
In making someone a moderator, the administration is almost literally painting a target on their back. Those of you who insist that that target gives the rest of us a limitless right to sling whatever shit we want to at it should maybe imagine that target painted on your back for a moment. A moderator should be ready to be called on instances of poor or hasty judgment; they shouldn’t be considered to be prepared to swallow anything and everything any of us wants to feed them.
Or they could just say “no thanks” when offered modship?
You should take time to note that TVeblen specifically told him if he was going to start a pit thread he should “really take a swing at it”. I’d say he did exactly as a mod suggested. If TVeblen is pressing for the suspension, then I’d say Ellis Dee was baited into this. If it’s just TubaDiva, well then that’s quite a lot crueler and more petty.
Also, I think you’re really dismissive when you imply a 30-day suspension is a light punishment considering he ponied up his $15 like the rest of us. I’d need to invent a new word for the kind of angry I’d be. I’m bordering on livid just knowing I won’t be able to enjoy his NFL threads as the season closes out.
“I draw your attention to the curious incident of the Mods in this matter.”
“But the Mods said nothing in this matter.”
“That is the curious incident.”
And well put, Omniscient!
Long day at work that extended into the evening; sorry.
FTR, I’ve been called far worse than cunt in a joy-packed career working with the general public. Being cussed out doesn’t phase me at all anymore. It mostly strikes me as stupid; otherwise, yawn. Also FTR I certainly don’t consider ‘cunt’ as hate speech either. Ugly, yes; hateful, no.
I’m a bit suprised over this brouhaha. Anybody who thinks it’s been just fine and hunky dory to cuss out mods apparently don’t remember the decisive actions taken when posters got abusive with the likes of Alphagene, Manny, Coldy, UncleBeer, etc. I more disgusted with Tom being told to fuck off, just for tamping down a shitfest in Great Debates. Some degree of volatility goes with the Pit, but telling me to fuck off just for closing a stupid non-thread wasn’t cool either. Total batshit territory, in fact.
I don’t care whether Ellis Dee is suspended for a month, a few days or let back immediately with a warning–and have stated as much in the mod loop discussions. Makes me no nevermind.
I was amused, and still am, that ED–and others–somehow found that Pit thread closing snarky. Threads can be, and have been, closed with no explanation at all. I gave dispassionate reasons for what was wrong with it: two phrases and a link didn’t give posters any idea what the thread was about or why to read it.
And people wonder why thread closings–and mods–aren’t as funny anymore.
Well, if they are going to get the kid gloves treatment they had better stop including attitude when they administer their duties.
If a rule is to be passed that mods cannot be pitted and should not be attacked for making contraversial judgements (most of which are very subjective ones) then Mods should operate with a strictly objective and editorial free manner when smacking down a poster.
Why did you quote me in your post? Nothing in it has anything to do with what I said.
Don’t be dumb. You said not to fling shit at the mods. He’s saying then they shouldn’t fling it first.
Thanks for the response, Veb. As I noted above, I think providing somewhat more protection for mods is reasonable (mods as mods, that is – mods who are acting as posters would, I assume, have the same protection as any of us).
Apparently I, and many others in this thread, don’t. Do you have any examples?
Count me as one who found your response when closing it to have a little attitude to it. I agree it wasn’t very scathing, but I think the reason it perhaps came across as being a more loaded response than it was was that you appeared to be agreeing wholly with Brian Ekers. I felt he was trying to bait the already miffed ED into being more pissed without any involvement in the real pitting. Just being a pain in the ass for the sake of it. For you to come in with a similar tone made your brief reply with the authority of a mod felt, to me, to be adding insult to injury.
You mention Alphagene as one of the mods who was involved in this type of stuff before. My recollection of his moderating recalls him being famous for his scathing flames of posters. I admit to avoiding the Pit typically, so I could be off regarding the general tone these days, but from what I recall his post wasn’t too far off of par for the course.
Do you agree that perhaps your instruction for him “to really take a swing at it” ought to be considered as a mitigating factor?
I’m baffled by this. There was certainly no attitude intended, postive or negative. Why on earth would there be? As far as I was concerned, it was nothing more than a dead-neutral, routine thread closing. Moving threads, reminders to title clearly, convey a working point in a thread, etc. just aren’t any big deal.
“Take a swing at it” meant nothing more than a reminder to put enough effort into a thread so posters could get the point without a lot of detective work. Non-threads or misleading threads are bad solely because they annoy other posters. Pit mods worked up the “To Pit or Not to Pit” sticky because posters got outraged over threads even being moved. Threads closed with no explanation can cause problems: “Why was X closed?” “What was wrong with X?” etc. Explaining why seemed like a better choice, to remind the OP as well as keep the reasoning transparent to casual readers.
I’m at a complete loss to understand why I’m assumed to be personally invested over anything so routine as a thead closing.
Not saying it was intended, but apparently more than one person thought it was there. One of the risks of the medium I suppose. Subtley is often overlooked and just as often imagined. Something we all need to keep in mind I suppose.
In the same vein I think it’s easy to see how the “take a swing at it” comment can be pretty open to interpretation.
If we all start singing Alice’s Restaurant will they unsuspend Ellis Dee?
He already apologized, seems he doesn’t need a cooling off period.
Join with me and help with the unsuspend Ellis Dee Movement.
“You can get anything you want at Alice’s restaurant” …
Jim
This is a typical case of TPTB blind justice, and there is nothing we could do about it.
Oh yes there is. I for one intend to simmer. And I trust I shall not be alone in so doing.
That’ll show’em!
Nothing more need be done.
I was clearly in the wrong in my second pit thread. While there may not have been a specific rule that says not to call a mod a specific name, I did quite obviously cross the line of acceptable behavior.
The mods have seen fit to reinstate me, but I’ve taken this incident to heart and will not let minor quibbles turn into raging vitriol again.
This thread could probably be closed down.