Not quite a shopping center, but here in FL I have called the local police (Sheriffs actually) to trespass people off the condo I managed. Several times. Here’s how that works.
Cops show up, inform the individual they are not welcome on our property and must leave. The LEOs must witness me, or another authorized property manager, inform the individual face to face that they are not welcome.
At which point the individual has two and a half choices:
Depart the property promptly under their own power.
Depart the property “assisted” by two or four policemen.
I see a link to some lawyer’s answer about trespassing in your post. Did you forget to link the penal code? (ETA: ah, I see you copy/pasted the code. It doesn’t say what you represented.)
From what I’ve read, the person needs to be given a verbal warning, not written. The notarized form you mention is something different. That grants police the ability to cite people trespassing on your property when you are not present. It is for general trespassing, not for an individual. I think you misunderstood whatever cite you found.
I gave you an example of when I, acting with the owner’s authority, sat outside for several hours to enforce parking restrictions. I’m sure you are right that they won’t do it for a Veterans’ Only spot unless it begins to interfere with their business, as I said.
'Zactly. The vast majority of trespassers I dealt with were generally amiable homeless folks who’d selected our trees to sleep under mid-day.
Cops show up, gently awaken the guy, I ask him to leave while they watch. They offer him a ride to the homeless shelter / flophouse which he declines. He shrugs, says OK, then wanders off down the road with his meagre knapsack of possessions. Nobody even takes down his name although in conversation w the LEOs they recognize most of these guys and know their names and police interaction history.
Had one guy who was utterly out of his gourd on something highly stimulating. He was gesticulating wildly and raving and wandering in circles repeatedly shouting his name and a bunch of nonsense words. Paramedics standing 30 feet away with their gurney while the cops surround him. I get my cue to ask him to leave. Hard to get his attention aimed at me, but we eventually succeeded and I made my request. Afer a couple more minutes of no reaction from him, just more of the same wacky behavior the cops tackle him onto the grass about as gently as can be done, get the cuffs and ankle shackles on him after a brief struggle and haul him off to first the hospital then the jail. He was still shouting gibberish as they loaded him into their van.
Did you need that, or was just the relevant paragraph sufficient?. For some reason the link failed.
Yes, without the Written warning, by the owners pr owners agents request, the police will politely ask the driver, etc to leave. Without the document, at least here in CA, that is all that will happen. The owner complains, the police make a request, the driver leaves. No arrest if the driver, etc leaves. The only way an arrest can be made without that paperwork- under CA law- is if they refuse to leave. Even then, prosecution is doubtful.
Sure, but that is different that if someone parks in a “veterans only” spot and they cant prove is a veteran. A crime has been committed, like with shoplifting. Owners often do that paperwork so that if the shoplifter comes back in, they will be forced to leave, even if they arent stealing anything this time.
Right, But you didnt arrest anyone or cause them to be arrested. You simply asked them to leave if they were not a customer. Perfectly Okay.
Arrest comes from non-compliance with a legally enforceable order from the LEO. In CA or elsewhere. No non-compliance, no arrest. Either way, the act of trespassing comes to an end. The trespasser decides how difficult this gets by how they react to the lawful order to leave.
The Trespassing Letter of Authority is the notarized document that must be filed to grant the police/sheriff authority to cite or arrest someone when you are not present. It has nothing to do with trespassing an individual from your property.
If you want someone arrested for trespassing, you must file a citizen’s arrest form or civil restraining order if they have left by the time police arrives. If the police arrives while the person is still on your property, they have witnessed the crime and don’t need other paperwork.
Obviously, it takes extreme circumstances before police will actually arrest or cite someone. But that’s based on their judgment, not because the penal code doesn’t allow it.
They have witnessed what crime? In general Trespassing is a civil matter. If you “made a citizens arrest” for someone parking in a “Veterans only” spot, your lawyer will tell you you are crazy. And the parker can make a similar arrest for harassment, etc, and both will go to jail, unless the nice police officers can talk you out of it. It is simple- you request that a person leaves, If they do not, and call the police, then they request that person leaves. In both cases, if the person leaves, then there is no crime. In CA a Citizens arrest can only be made for a misdemeanor if you witness the offense happening in real-time.
Where is the misdemeanor for parking in such a space?
Again, you are mixing things up. Parking violations are separate from trespassing. No one is being cited or arrested for a parking violation.
The conversation about trespassing came up because some responders said that if someone repeatedly violated parking rules, the business would have them trespassed from the property. If the business chooses to do this, follows the proper procedure of a verbal notification to the individual by an authorized representative, and it is not for a protected reason, then the police can cite them. If this happened, the citation would be for trespassing, not for parking.
I’ll probably regret this, but can you provide a cite? It’s a civil matter if the person has a reason to be on the property (e.g., a vendor payment dispute) or if the police have not witnessed the trespassing and the business has not filed a citizen’s arrest. Otherwise, it is a criminal matter.
As I understood - in Canada - the person with authority for the parking spots - say, mall owner or someone like tenant store managers or assistants, security guards, etc. - actually authorized to do so can call a tow truck on an person praking in the wrong spot. Obviously - as mentioned - there are situations where towing a car because “you don’t look pregnant” is a risky thing to do for publicity and financial reasons. But only handicapped spots (and fire lanes) are fair game for the police to ticket. Plus, a tow company does not have to tell who requested the tow, the only real dispute I assume would be whether the parking offense was legitimate.
But - from what I know from two provinces - a sign restricting parking, “reserved” or “online pickup” or “family only” the appropriate authorized person can request a tow as long as the sign says that “offenders may be towed” or words to that effect (for a private property, even if open to the public). Just, the police will not enforce those, no ticket applicable. As I unerstand, some jurisdictions in North America have laws about parking in Electric Vehicle charging stations, unless charging and -again - provided properly signed.
Again, my experience with Canadian law is - a person who is making themselves unwelcome in private but public-accesible property may be asked to leave for any reason (except simply race, creed, colour, etc.) and if they refuse you can call the police and have them arrested. For nuisances - suspected shoplifters, or persons harrassing tenants in an apartment - the person of authority may also present them with a “banning letter” and they can be criminally charged if they return after that.
(My dad once remarked that Scottish vagrancy laws allowed someone 24 hours if they were asked to leave while camping on private property, but I gather that has changed a while ago. His anecdote was from the 1940’s.)
It’s a municipal parking ordinance specifically called “trespass parking” and it includes parking in slots on public, private, or private lots which are open to the public that are designated for specific vehicles or individuals. Such as parking in employee only parking.
Believe it or not I got one about 20 years ago. I was doing some side work for a consulting firm. They had a company car I was allowed to use and take home over the weekend. Someone in the building didn’t recognize my personal car parked in the lot and called police who turned it over to the parking bureau (a specific, non-police sector of the city). I came back to a $50 ticket for trespass parking on the windshield. A letter from the firm that I worked there got it dismissed. My car probably would not have gotten towed in that instance unless it had been there much longer.
“repeatedly violated parking rules” But afaik we are not talking about that- we are talking one guy parking one times in a “veterans only” spot.
It can be criminal, but mostly it is civil-
Trespassing is the legal term for when one person enters onto another person’s land without legal right or permission to be there. The trespassing can be considered a crime, a civil wrong, or both depending on a particular case.
When a person trespasses onto another person’s land and steals some personal property from the owner he can be charged with criminal trespass. When the trespasser breaks something on the homeowner’s property he can be sued under civil tort law… > Here are some examples of trespass in California:
A neighbor enters onto private property to cut vegetation or trees without the owner’s permission. In similar cases, California law is especially strict. There are Civil code sections which allow for the recovery of treble damages for the loss of trees. The trespasser is liable for three times the value of the trees and punitive damages.
A neighbor places a barrier or some other object on another person’s property without permission. An injunction can be obtained in court to force the removal of the barrier in addition to damages.
What Is Trespass?
Trespass that is not criminal is civil. It involves the act of knowingly entering or remaining on someone else’s property without permission. It happens when an individual enters onto private property, such as someone’s land or dwelling without the owner’s consent. Civil trespass is a tort, meaning that the land owner can recover compensation for any losses they incurred as a result of your trespass.
What Is Criminal Trespass?
Criminal trespass, on the other hand, is a criminal offense. This means that the state, not the land owner, is the one bringing the legal action. In addition, rather than seeking damages, the state is seeking to punish you for committing a crime.
Types of Trespass: • Criminal Trespass: Criminal trespass occurs when someone enters or remains on your property without permission and with the intent to interfere with your rights or commit a crime. Criminal trespass is generally a misdemeanor offense in California.
Now, yeah, giving a shoplifter a trespass notice- and they come back, can be criminal- “Criminal trespass occurs when someone enters or remains on your property without permission and with the intent to interfere with your rights or commit a crime.”.
But just asking someone to leave an otherwise public area is not criminal trespass.
Of course, this is California law. I could be totally wrong in other states , like say Utah maybe, they may have different laws and rules.
Or in the case of whatever municipality this is in-
Ok, so your point is that in different scenarios than what we were discussing, trespassing can be civil. Got it.
But I didn’t see any cite for this, and I suspect you are wrong as it applies to businesses which have formally trespassed you (or in other words, the only topic of relevance here).
As was said several times, very much depends on the detailed statutes of the jurisdiction. One place where I used to work was a large building with a parking garage that was inadequate because of local politics restricting its expansion. There was a shopping mall across the street.
As one can well imagine, the shopping mall parking lot was infested with cars either visiting the building across the street, or workers/contractors parking there all day.
A common practice around here is to authorize private security to issue official municipal parking tickets. These have the force of law and are the same tickets issued by parking authorities and police. In that situation they were issued to any cars parked there for more than three hours. I can’t say for sure if any were ever towed, but I do believe there were signs to that effect – “ticketed and/or towed”.
Did the driver come into the parking lot- open to all- with the intent to commit a crime? And again, except in some non California town, parking is such a spot is not a crime.
What do you mean by that? Written notice? A verbal statement? And even so, after you have formally asked them to leave or it will be trespassing-
Criminal trespass occurs when someone enters or remains on your property without permission and with the intent to interfere with your rights or commit a crime.
Where is the crime? We are not talking about some shoplifter who with “the intent to commit a crime.” who is noticed to never come back in the store.
We are talking about someone who parks in a public spot, which is noticed “For Veterans only” (who may or may not be a veteran, but doesnt have the ID on them) and is asked to leave.
Yes. I am only talking CA.
Not kosher in CA.
CONCLUSIONS
Neither California Vehicle Code section 22658, nor any other state law,
authorizes private property owners to issue parking citations imposing monetary
sanctions to the owners of vehicles parked on their property.
Absent statutory authorization, private property owners may not acquire, by
means of issuing a written warning or posting signage, the right to issue parking citations
imposing monetary sanctions to the owners of vehicles parked on their property.
And we are just going around and around. At least here in CA, the property owner may ask someone to leave. If they refuse, and the Police are called, they will also ask the person to politely leave. If he refuses the police, there can be issues. But if the Property owner demands that the police arrest that man since he refused to leave after the property owner demanded it- the Police will try to talk him down. They wont just slap the cuffs on the guy before he has a choice to leave after the police ask him to.
I am not them, but I know DrDeth lives in California and upthread they provided a cite to California law and cites to lawyerly websites about California law.
