English norms as seen in "Liar,"

Cafe Society
1

[Mods: These questions were sparked by a TV show, but are not about the show itself. If this is not the appropriate forum, please move it to whichever one is.]
I watched the first episode of Liar last night. I’ve been in England a bunch (although not recently, and always as a tourist), and I watch a fair amount of British TV, but two things really struck me as odd, and I wonder if they’re normal over there or if the writer/director/whoever simply messed up.

  1. It takes place in some seaside town, maybe a small city. Both leads are shown to own cars — he drives his son to school every day; she drives to her sister’s house. They go on a date to a nice restaurant on the sea, and they both take cabs. Why?

It only just now it occurred to me that it might be so they can drink as much as they want and not worry about driving home. Except it’s a first date, so I can’t imagine either one was planning on getting plowed. Plus, I’ve never heard of anyone doing that. Maybe to a party, sure, but not just for going out to dinner.

Of course, I live in a rural area that has no cabs, and before that I lived in New York City, where no one owns a car. So what do I know?

Question: Is it normal in England for two people who own cars to take cabs to the restaurant when going out to dinner?
2) The male lead is a prominent surgeon. He’s in the OR when the police come to arrest him. A nurse walks in and says, “Mr. Earlham, the police are here to see you.” He walks into the hallway, and one of the cops says, “Mr. Earlham, I’m D.I. Harmon, and this is D.S. Maxwell.”

In the U.S., this guy would be addressed as “Dr. Earlham.” In fact, many doctors, if addressed by a stranger (at the bank or a hotel or whatever) as Mr., would say, “Actually, it’s Doctor Earlham.”

I know Watson was “Dr. Watson,” but that was over a hundred years ago.

Question: Are doctors not addressed as “Doctor” in England?

2

Surgeons are always called Mr., and take offence at being confused with Drs…
Drink-Driving laws are kinda ferocious.

I have heard of people getting plowed at dinners.

3

Yes, surgeons and medical specialists are “Mr”. You’re not the only one to find this an odd practice, but it is so. GPs are “Dr”.

4

Surgeons prefer to be called Mr for some archaic reason. It’s supposed to be a big deal when they get promoted and leave behind the Dr title. They get really offended if addressed as Doctor, but the distinction only really makes sense to themselves.

As for taking a cab, many possible reasons apart from drink. There may be a shortage of parking spaces or expensive car parks. Or, if it’s the start of an affair, they may not want their cars to be spotted by nosey colleagues or neighbours.

5

I can’t answer the first question, but as to the second, surgeons in the UK are traditionally addressed as “Mister” (or “Miss,” “Ms,” or “Mrs,” as appropriate). Here is an explanation from the Royal College of Surgeons: Why Are surgeons in the UK called Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs rather than Dr?

Short answer, it goes back to the fact that historically, surgeons did not get a degree from a university, but rather served an apprenticeship and then passed an examination. These days surgeons do go to medical school, but the tradition of using Mister rather than Doctor for surgeons has remained.

You mention Doctor Watson. You may recall that in The Hound of the Baskervilles, when Holmes referred to their client as “Doctor Mortimer,” Mortimer (who was a surgeon) corrected him to “Mister.”

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*In the UK, driving or attempting to drive whilst above the legal limit or unfit through drink carries a maximum penalty of six months’ imprisonment, a fine of up to £5,000 and a minimum twelve months’ disqualification. For a second offence committed within ten years of conviction, the minimum ban is three years.
*

*Being in charge of a vehicle whilst over the legal limit or unfit through drink could result in three months’ imprisonment plus a fine of up to £2,500 and a driving ban.
*

Causing death by careless driving when under the influence of alcohol or other drugs carries a maximum penalty of fourteen years in prison, a minimum two-year driving ban and a requirement to pass an extended driving test before the offender is able to drive legally again.

It is an offence to refuse to provide a specimen of breath, blood or urine for analysis. The penalties for refusing are the same as those for actual drunk driving.

Wikipedia

7

The parking one occurred to me right away. I live in a big city (bigger than most people in the US realize-- Indianapolis is something like the 16th largest city in the US, and the 3rd largest capital city). Anyway, our pubic transport sucks, and the town is really spread out, having grown by absorbing a bunch of little townships. It’s almost impossible to live here without a car, but it’s also very hard to park downtown. People who own cars, but want to go out downtown in the evening usually Uber these days, Ubers being way, way cheaper than cabs. Wanting to drink is part of it, but parking is an even bigger part. People going to an event want to get out of there, and not wait 45 minutes to get out of a structure, assuming they get in one, and don’t don’t have to pay $5 to park 7 blocks away from the venue.

8

You don’t have to drink very much to risk being over the limit for driving in the UK. It’s also totally normal to have wine with a restaurant meal, and sharing a bottle* is well within acceptable first date parameters, but not alas police breathalyzer ones.

  • well, I say a bottle, but y’know
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OK, I get that tough DUI laws [or poor parking options] could explain why two people might take a cab to a restaurant. But my question was: Is this something that actually happens with any degree of regularity?

I guess it does in Indianpolis, but I was asking about England. :slight_smile:

[In my state, a first DUI is punishable by up to 6 months in jail, up to a $1000 fine, and license suspension for one year. The money is less, but the jail and suspension are equivalent to those quoted by Evan Drake. And, as I’ve said, I’ve never heard of anyone taking a cab unless they were going to some sort of special event and planning on drinking very heavily.]
The Mr./Dr. thing was really interesting, and thank you for the explanations. Ignorance fought, as they say.

10

I don’t know enough people to say if it happened regularly ---- although I should imagine the media crowd in London would automatically call or hail a cab — but for most people a taxi would be the simplest option. Just as self-driving cars will be in the future.

11

It’s a date? They probably both want to drink just enough to feel relaxed and lose some nerves. This would be too much to then drive. Unless they each have their own dedicated driver, their choices are to drive then cab home which means getting a cab back to the car the next day, or just cab there and back.

12

I don’t know where you live, but in the UK getting a taxi is such an unremarkable thing that I’m genuinely surprised that it seems so exotic to you.

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As I said, I’ve lived in New York City, so for years I took cabs (or subways or buses) every day. It’s not exotic. But I didn’t own a car at the time, because they’re more of a hinderance than a help in Manhattan.

In the U.S., in my experience, people who own cars drive their cars. If the car is in the shop, they get a loaner or a rental. Somebody who has a car sitting in the driveway wouldn’t take a cab to a restaurant unless …

Well, see above.

14

When I lived in London; the car I owned was for travel outside London or to the outer suburbs. Otherwise, I used the Underground or the Tube. Or walked.

15

Maybe I should explain.

The plot of the show hinges on what the two of them did in her apartment after the date. So the writer had to get them both into her apartment somehow.

The man walked the woman home, said goodnight at the gate, and tried to call for a cab, but his phone was dead (or so he said). She said he could use the phone in her apartment to call. They both went up to her apartment.

To me, having them both take cabs to the date is an artificial contrivance by the writer to get him into her apartment. But I don’t live in a seaside town in England.

I’m wondering if a genuine English person would watch this and say, as I did, “But if they both own cars, why are they taking cabs? That’s lazy, contrived writing.” Or is the practice so unremarkable over there that said English viewer wouldn’t bat an eye?

16

If he walked her home, wouldn’t she have walked to the restaurant in the first place? They could have both walked, from different directions. One of them could have taken public transport, which was no longer going by the time the date finished.

In Australia, used to be in the UK, find the taxi thing wholly unremarkable.

17

If they take their own cars and plan to drink, as you would on a date, how do you expect them to get home?

I don’t live in England and it is not what I would do personally*, but the concept doesn’t seem strange or contrived.

  • If it was me, I would drive, leave my car there, get a cab home, then ride my bicycle to the car the next day to pick it up. This still leaves me cabbing home so the story as described would still work.
18

Not seen the show so am not familiar with the particular transaction; but IME, being in similar situations, calling a cab would be unremarkable.
Although I never lived in NYC, and have only visited there for work, I do note that many middle and upper-middle-class/professional people seem to use their cars to go into and out of the city. The LIRR seems to be mostly working class and poor.Or the young. In the UK, it was very common for all classes to take the train to the suburbs. Hell, as I said I owned a car and at one time I regularly would visit friends who lived in Tunbridge Wells. Unless I was staying overnight, I (and others) often just simply took the train from work and then a cab from the station. Parking in the UK can be one hell of a hassle.

19

I’m pretty sure the last time I paid for a taxi by myself in England was on my way to my driving theory test (in another city, didn’t know where I was going, and my train had come in late), but I am a noted cheapskate, and most of my friends would think nothing of getting a taxi home from a pub, restaurant or anything else.

Usually in my circle, people would get the public transport or walk there, then split a taxi home (I’ve occasionally shared one) but what’s a perfectly fine walk at 7pm may not be at 1am, and the busses are, at best, a bit dodgy and infrequent at night.

Almost all of us owned cars. If we were going to a restaurant in the suburbs where there was plentiful parking and no busses then sure, people would drive, but in the centre, nope.

20

They’re going to dinner. They’ll be drinking. Even though they both have cars I doubt anyone would drive in that situation. Totally normal.

The only contrived bit I can see is what someone else already pointed out. If its close enough for him to walk her home then why didn’t she walk to the restaurant in the first place? But its not much of a one as the storyline depends on him needing a taxi home, not her.