Does that mean that every card in the premiership damages the English fair play rankings, and so damages Norwich’s chances of being in Europe? Heh heh, now who can remember where Kieron Dyer started out? 
Yes it does - but even so we’re better behaved than most leagues. I have had this “Fair Play” thing explained to me very. slowly. indeed. And I still don’t understand it. There are points for things like crowd’s attitude to the opposition , sporting play etc.
There’s also a lottery element in it. (I have no real idea how that works either)
I know, it does seem a mysterious system. I’ve been Googling and looking through Uefa’s site, and can’t find anything at all.
In the interests of fighting ignorance (and possibly propogating bafflement) here’s the straight dope (this is how it was explaned to me by a pal who works for the FA - don’t ask me any questions on this I’m in the same boat as the rest of you, this is C+p’d from my email so I hope it works):>>>>>>
I thought I would answer your questions regarding fair play.
What has happened since 1999 and specifically what happened last year.
12 associations (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, England, Germany, Ukraine,
Republic of Ireland, Finland, Spain, Albania, Armenia and Iceland) out of 51
finished the season with a Fair Play coefficient of 8.0 or over, and have
played enough matches to be taken into consideration for the Fair Play UEFA
Cup place draw. Sweden came top so automatically the team with the highest
coefficient got a place in the UEFA Cup qualifying rounds. This team was
Östers who had in fact also been relegated from the top flight of the
Swedish League. The Azerbaijani federation had actually the highest
coefficient by far (8.751) but had only played 28 games and therefore was
not elligible since UEFA’s Fair Play ranking only takes into account
national associations that have played what UEFA says is a reasonable number
of games.
Out of the remaining 11 associations one team from each association who
finished highest in the Fair Play league of that association and had not
already qualified for Europe was put in a draw for 2 extra UEFA spots.
Charlton had this spot for England but the winners of the draw were clubs
from Armenia (Mika Ashtarak) and the Ukraine (Illichivets Mariupol)
In simple terms, if for the season a country’s football association plays
enough games and comes top of the Fair Play league they get an extra UEFA
cup slot in their league for the team which finished highest in that
association’s Fair Play league. This is exactly what happened with
Manchester City in 2003, they automatically qualified for the UEFA Cup,
without having to go into the draw, after coming 5th in the Fair Play league
(4 teams above them had already qualified for Europe).
Ipswich also did it in 2002 regardless of the fact that they were relegated,
and what was more astonishing was that they were in a draw with SEVENTEEN
other nations. Compared to the 11 last year, they got pretty lucky!
This Season
Nothing is different. Relegated teams still get a say in the Fair Play UEFA
spot, 3 teams still get a UEFA Cup spot, 1 team from the top coefficient
association still gets a UEFA Cup spot automatically and 2 teams are still
drawn. (Check out page 16 of this UEFA pdf file released in March 2005 ->
http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/283589.pdf to see for yourselves).
Before the competitions resumed after the winter break and on the
basis of 1,129 matches, the countries were ranked as follows:
- Norway 8.251 points
- Denmark 8.240
- Sweden 8.102
- Estonia 8.100
- England 8.065
- Germany 8.056
- France 8.041
- Ukraine 8.015
- Spain 7.993
- Switzerland 7.958
As things stand above, England is unlikely to get the automatic UEFA Cup
spot Manchester City got 2 years ago as it seems to be being fought out
betwen Norway and Denmark and if Newcastle United are anything to go by I
wouldn’t be surprised if England drop below the 8.0 coefficient required to
be eligible for a Fair Play UEFA Cup slot anyway.
If you want to see what is taken into consideration regarding the
coefficient of associations which UEFA gives marks for check out the bottom
of this page -> http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/fairplay.html
So what Fair Play table should we be looking at for England?
The English FA Fair Play league is judged on the following:
Red & Yellow Cards. You start off the match with 10 points. If your player
gets sent off you get docked 3 points, if your player gets a yellow card you
get docked 1 point.
Positive play: maximum 10 points
Positive aspects: attacking tactics, acceleration of the game, efforts to
gain time, and continued pursuit of goals. Negative aspects: deceleration of
the game, time-wasting, tactics based on foul-play, play-acting, etc. In
general terms positive play correlates with the numer of goal-scoring
chances created and the number of goals scored.
Respect of the opponent: maximum 7 points
Assessement should be based on positive attitudes (e.g. helping an injured
opponent) rather than infringements.
Respect of the referee: maximum 7 points
A positive attitude towards the referee (and assistant referees), including
the acceptance of doubtful decisions without protest, should be rewarded.
Behaviour of team officials: maximum 6 points
Postive and negative aspects of the behaviour of team officials should be
assessed. E.g. whether they calm or provoke angry players or fans, how they
accept the referee’s decisions, etc. Co-operation with the media should also
be considered as a factor.
The only differences between the way the English FA do it and UEFA do it for
associations is that the points are spread out differently for the English
Fair Play league as the English FA do not take crowd behaviour into
consideration whereas UEFA do.
The latest fair play table (for March 2005) can be seen here ->
http://www.premierleague.com/public/downloads/publications/Fair%20Play%20Mar%2005.pdf
Conclusion
As things stand I doubt England will even get into the draw for the UEFA Cup
spot via the Fair Play league, but if they do then it will be between us and
Norwich with Charlton as an outside chance for claiming that one spot to get
into the draw. I also feel if we get into the draw we will have a very high
chance of getting a UEFA slot as there will be 2 spots for about 7 or 8
teams and I like those odds. (Ipswich did it against 17 teams at the end of
the day).
Hope this was useful to you.
Owl’s pointy-headed pal.
Shall we take another look at ‘that’ Delia moment? 
Thanks, that just about makes sense - more so than in 2002, when I was away from Suffolk and couldn’t find anybody who knew what the hell it was all about. I know that I don’t want to know about the national ‘coefficient’ gubbins, given that it’ll be as ludicrous and unrepresentative as the regular national rankings. Just the knowledge that Norwich will need to be very lucky is enough for me.
Am I understand that UEFA are awarding a spot in Europe for “being nice”? This sounds like something the PC Police would do here. Very strange.
You have it in one. The nicest team from the nicest country gets a place. Bollocks isn’t it? There’s also an award for this in the European Championship (england have won this in the past - we’d rather have won the actual football thing)
The award for this in most American sports is: Last Place.
Ok, not totally true, but winning can get forgiveness for a variety of sins, while being nice and losing will usually cost you your job.
Hmm… I wonder why Italy aren’t near the 8.0 mark?
I just saw a comment on another message board that Israel were awarded a 3-0 victory over France because France illegally used Viera. I don’t see confirmation anywhere, though, not on FIFA or UEFA sites. If this is true it’s huge, as it puts France bottom of the table for qualifying and puts Israel on top.
Anyone know if this is true or just some idiot taking the piss?
Possibly an April Fool’s joke?
A few days too late. Or maybe he saw something posted somewhere a few days ago and was too dense to check the date. Anyway, it’s fun to scream “CITE?” over there.
Re the France thing: C’est balles. C’est un domage, mais n’est pas vrais!
The bin dippers did well last night (I didn’t give them a hope) but that away goal could come back to haunt them. I couldn’t watch the opening bit as I have a Boris Johnson level of dislike of scousers and sentimentality, but once they got the mawk-athon out of the way it was a corking game.
BTW did anyone see Phil Neal get royally stitched up in the Observer Sport Monthly - very good stuff indeed?
That’s what I’m thinking. It’s just odd because it wasn’t some schmoe posting, but one of the moderators. C’est la vie.
What did you think of Lyonnais v PSV? I like PSV’s chances a lot better now that they’ve got that away draw and goal. Everyone was saying that Liverpool and PSV were the easier teams, so I’d like to seem them both go through.
I didn’t see it.
I will tonight break the habit of a lifetime and watch Chelsea play football. In common with CFC’s manager I will not be at the game, but in a “quiet calm place”. I’m going to Arsenals European Trophy Room. Or I might go to the pub.
I see that CFC have extended Mourinho’s contract and given him a million quid a year rise (Americans: a million pounds sterling is an awful lot of dollars - however in SW London it’s the price of a small detached house). God, I hope they lose!
I thought Liverpool played out of their skins first half - Juve looked shell-shocked for most of the 45 mins.
Given that Liverpool had been totally written off by most pundits I think it’s an excellent results - I agree the away goal could be a huge problem, means a 1-0 will would be enough for Juve.
Good result though - two excellent strikes from unlikely sources.
Good effort from Chelsea tonight, but the penalty in stoppage time was just stupid.
Bayern have got to fancy it now - a 2-0 home win puts them through, right?
How often have Chelsea been shut out this season? It will be an interesting return leg, for sure.
Chelsea holdall the aces.
Bayern have to come at them - Chelsea only really have to score once to secure the tie. Then it’s 'Pool or Juve in the semi - which they really should be able to cope with.
I am not a happy bunny. The price of my season ticket next year? £950.00 - ie a bull’s eye off a grand. For fuck’s sake. I could buy Bolton for that (the whole town)! It’s not the most expensive either - that’s £1350.00
How much do you lot pay?