Ah, yes. JB needs a lot more screen time.
But then, so does Chef.
“Why hello chillun. How are my little Bridge Crew Crackers today?”
“Oh no, children! Don’t piss off Future Guy!”
“You must mean Admiral Hankey.”
[singing] When you love a Vulcan woman, you gotta watch out for the ears.[/singing]
“You will receive three ghostly visitations tonight, who will show you the true meaning of Xindi-mas”
Spock: A lie?
Monstre: An exaggeration…
ahem…
On the canon/Klingon stuff. I don’t care about makeup – they aren’t going back to the old style no matter how much anybody yells about it. But wasn’t there something from TOS about the first contact with the Klingons being disastrous and going quite badly? There have been some “going badly” moments in Enterprise, but the “first” contact now was “Broken Bow” and that ended with Archer getting Klingon Kudos, such as they are…
First contact between the peoples of the Carribean with Columbus went pretty well but it was the beggining of half a milennium of genocide.
It’s all in how you define first contact - the actual first time they meet or the first few years or decades following, when the relationship is built upon.
They had several run-ins with the Klingons later and didn’t come off so well. Archer was also broken out of Rura Penthe.
The knobby headed Klingons in ST TMP were never explained, so I’d consider it a non issue by now.
The most glaring canon violation for ENT was the first episode, Broken Bow.
It violates canon in having Klingons. Day of the Dove TOS and First Contact TNG establish that first contact with Klingons was 2218.
So far, ENT has concerned events of the dates April 2151 to August 2154.
The first starship to bear the name Enterprise was the SS Enterprise (date and regitry unknown) prior to the events of TOS (ref- ST:TMP)
Suliban. No reference in any other series, though they are major players in this series.
Temporal Cold War. We saw plenty of future Star/Time Fleet type stuff in both VOY and DS9. Never a mention. Could be explained away as having been resolved so that this timeline doesn’t exist (or is at least invisible), but that is a RESET copout, imho.
United Federation of Planets will be established May 8, 2161 (The Outcast TNG) with Tellarites, Andorians, Vulcans, and someone from Alpha Centauri. So… maybe this will happen real quick.
Same way with Romulan War. 2156 to 2160 (Balance of Terror TOS, The Defector TNG) Again, maybe this will just happen with no set up.
Most of the other canon violations my be said to be ENT’s canon. But, they do screw around a bit with all the other series. Why did we see Borg in 2152? Why is their no mention of The Expanse, XIndi, Suliban, Temporal Cold War, Sphere Builders, Xindi/Earth Alliance in any of the other series. Sure, can be explained away with reset button, or saying that it just never came up, but that would be a cop out, Many eps of the other series refenced important events of the past. These huge things in ENT would’ve been at least alluded to. Oh well…
And as for StarFleet predating the Federation, Charlie X - TOS, established that the United Earth Space Probe Agency was the operating agency in charge of NCC-1701. But, we all know that was a mistake and it is never discussed anymore. 
So, that’s my take on ENT canon violations.
Meaningless. How often do you hear the Algonquins mentioned in American History books?
Again, meaningless. The Temporal Division of Starfleet and the 29th Century fleet were there to set the timeline straight as far as they saw it, not to give anyone a history lesson. Need to know.
Cite? Those species are typically considered to be the founding planets of the Federation as established in dozens of books but I’ve never known it to be canon.
It’s possible. Wars have happened for stranger reasons, like the Central American Soccer War.
First Contact stranded Drones in the past. It’s an extrapolation of that event and whether we like it or not, it’s entirely plausible from what we know of the Borg.
How many species have we only seen once and never been referenced again? How many technologies should have been kept but were not? This has precedent in every other series of the franchise.
It the Suliban weren’t mentioned in TOS, it doesn’t mean they didn’t exist, it means they weren’t mentioned in TOS.
As you point out, TOS violated it’s own canon.
But we all know that Klingons have two heads and keep one in jar.
Dammit, Aes, I hate agreeing with you.
And I hate it when you agree more eloquently than I.
Wait a minute…
Can I get back to you on this?
I cited the date, Aes, not the species involved. Big hint about canon there.
As for your “meaningless” comments, we all know Bergama is playing fast and sleazy with established timeline and canon. They had plenty of things to choose from in TOS thru VOY, yet they chose to create all new stuff.
Fine, but don’t expect long time Trekkers not to notice that. Maybe they felt they couldn’t have a good enough series using canon refs. Maybe they’re right, we’ll never know.
But to sat that TURNING POINTS IN HISTORY not being mentioned is meaningless is a stretch, imo.
And yes, I agree that all Trek is one big canon violation of itself after another. And the lack of continuity was appaling (TNG!!!)
But, a specific question was asked, so I answered.
Is it a really big deal? No.
Is it annoying to longterm hardcore Trekkers? Yes.
It’s interesting how you can feel that the writers are too afraid to make the characters look bad, while I’m rather impressed that the writers are having the main characters make questionable decisions that “TNG” writers would NEVER have dared.
Would Picard have stolen a warp coil? The writers would no doubt have him wring his hands for an interminable length of time, then ultimately decide to NOT steal the warp coil … except the aliens would decide, for whatever idiotic reason, to trade it away after all, with the head alien giving Picard a hearty pat on the back for not attacking them. Or maybe they’d sneak-attack Picard and give him the moral high ground to blast their ship silly and take the warp coil. Or the other ship would be found abandoned and derelict (but with a perfectly functioning warp coil). Whatever.
The writers would do whatever they needed to avoid a messy ethical swamp altogether, because “TNG” – as much as I worshipped the show during its run and still look back upon it fondly – was less about grittiness and more about giving its characters the maximum amount of opportunities to get on a soapbox and deliver Shakespearean monologues. And that’s not necessarily a terrible thing, just a different style.
But he didn’t have Garak.
“Oh, didn’t I tell you, Captain?
I killed the alien Commander’s parents and fed them to him in Aldebran stew.
He was quite surprised, and while he was being violently ill, I used digitized excerpts of our conversation to construct a fictional message offering you the warp coil.”
Roddenberry was still an influence in TNG.
I enjoyed the darkness of DS9. I hope some of this can be managed in Enterprise, and not silly posturing by Backula
Am I being whooshed? You specifically said “*[The] United Federation of Planets will be established May 8, 2161 (The Outcast TNG) with** Tellarites, Andorians, Vulcans, and someone from Alpha Centauri**. So… maybe this will happen real quick. *” when talking about the foundation of the UFP.
I don’t deny that Bermaga is creating their own portrait instead of building on the rich tapestry that Trek already has but to try to say that all their new contributions violate canon is going overboard. I wasnt backstory as much as any Trekkie but I’d get bored quick if that’s all they ever did.
I’m not sure I’m following but are you implying that I’m not a long time Trekker? Granted, I might not be pushing forty and I only got into Trek in the early nineties but I’ve been into it for half my life and have devoted a considerable amount of my time and energy into learning its history.
I’m not offended; I’m just curious.
My cite was for the date only. That’s why I put it right behind the date and not behind the whole statement. Putting the cite behind the whole statement would imply that there is canon for the species involved. I was purposely trying to be subtle, but not misleading. Sorry for not making it clear from the get go.
The “Trekker” statement was intended for Bergama and I was using it rhetorically.
My problem with this episode is all the big big talk about securing the future for both species. That sounds like a pretty important turn of events. Yet, without some sort of reset for the series (again, imho), we are left with a never referenced turning point in history. That would be like discussing the current political climate for745 hours without ever mentioning WWII or the USA/USSR cold war. Possible, yes. But not likely. Againg, ytmmv*
your Trekker milage may vary.
Picard: You WHAT? Well, um, the warp coil’s already installed in our ship, and you guys probably killed all of their crew anyway, so there’s really no reason to give the coil back. And I didn’t do anything wrong to get it, which is great! But I really feel bad about this. I really do. And as I warp to my meeting with Degra, I’m going to continue to feel terrible and talk Riker’s ear off as I unburden my guilt.
Look, Garak, if you ever digitally construct a fictional message like that again, I’m going to be SO angry if you don’t do a good enough job to fool me so I can feel as morally blameless as I feel now. And I think you **DEFINITELY ** shouldn’t be hanging around near these coordinates next week that I’m transmitting to you to provide me with another loophole to squeak through. DO YOU HEAR ME???!!
Did you, uh, get those coordinates OK? And would you like to trade me something for Wesley, now that I’m thinking about it?
Well, we know that Sisko would have stolen a warp coil from his grandma AND framed the Dominion if he needed to! Even if he didn’t need to frame anybody! As for Janeway … would she steal a warp coil from innocent beings?
I’m just not getting the distinction on our canon argument, NCB. It all looks like a lot of doublespeak to me.
Well, I’m sure the next movie will set everything firmly right or wrong once and for all. 
Back to this ep, was anyone else as annoyed as I was at Quantum? So he wants to save his species from extinction. I’ll put that as a good thing. But where did this blind trust in everything Degra come from? He’s following him around in some sort of homo-erotic stupor.
Last week, he violated his own ethics to get that warp coil. What good are your own ideals if you refuse to stand up for them? And WHY did he have to get that warp coil? SO HE COULD MEET UP WITH DEGRA!
Now, he’s got Degra in his map/archive room. And giving him access to all sorts of potentially damaging information.
A neat twist would be to have Degra betray that crush, I mean trust, in a really nasty way.
Am I the only one confused by the Quantum fluctuations?
She wouldn’t even have to break out the compression phaser rifles.
She’d just give them the look and they’d give her their whole ship out of guilt for not visiting their Mothers.
If that failed, Paris would talk Kim into stealing it.