So if a Death Star’s not around, the Star Destroyer can’t lose, huh?
Makes you think why the Empire built Death Stars in the first place…
-SPOOFE
Well, if a Desth Star’s not around to crash into, a Super Star Destroyer can’t lose merely because its bridge blows up, at least.
SPOOFE Bo Diddly wrote:
Oh, pshaw. If Grand Admiral “Sherlock Holmes” Thrawn is such a master tactician, how come he didn’t thing of reprogramming 50 stolen mole-miners so that their original owners wouldn’t be able to control them? 
If this has been stated already please forgive me. For as big and bad as the ISD are supposed to be they had a pretty tough time siezing a simple diplomatic ship. Remember Episode IV?
Besides everyone knows that what would happen depends entirely upon who was captaining the Enterprise. If Kirk was Captain he would win. Period, some way some how he would win. If Picard was Captain he would fight with the Empire and then somehow convince them of the evils of their way and leave just as the Star Wars society was undergoing a radical social shift in its outlook.
Perhaps that is what this argument comes down to - who is captaining which ship.
I still maintain that the Star Trek universe officers are faster on their feet and more “outside the box” thinkers (notably Kirk) than the purely military-minded Star Wars officers.
Here’s a thought - who would the Star Wars characters most resemble in the Star Trek universe, and vice-versa?
I’d say the Empire would be equivalent to the Cardassians, and the Rebels would be equivalent to the Maquis.
On the flip side… hmmmm. I can’t think of who the Federation would be equivalent to in the Star Wars universe.
This has always been my tack on the differences between the two universes anyway - Star Wars has always been more simplistic, somewhat “child-oriented” black and white, good and evil, whereas Star Trek has always been more shades of gray, moral dilemma, the ends do not always justify the means. Know what I mean?
Star Wars may be meaner, but Star Trek is smarter.
Esprix
Evidently, I rock.
Ask the Gay Guy!
Esprix wrote:
The Old Republic Senate.
Esprix wrote:
The Old Republic Senate.
You know these Star Wars fans never cease to amaze me. Now I love Star Wars as much as anyone but come on now!
Vadar couldn’t kill some pimply faced kid. Picard would whip him with a quick phaser blast. Kirk, well he would break out the classic Kirk-Fu ™ and probable eat Vadar alive. I mean Kirk has faced down everything from Klingon to near omnipotent beings claiming to be God. Some guy on a respirator and running around with a cape and lame gaurds dressed in red carrying sticks would be no match for any of them, even Janeway.
Storm Troopers being able to sieze the Enterprise…Puh-leaze these guys couldn’t hit the broadside of the barn. The Iowa School of the Blind’s Marksmanship team are more likely to hit a target. Besides even if they did penetrate the ship a simply security forcefield would contain them. Then simply evacuate the air from the force field and the Storm Troopers are going to go bye bye!
What else? Once again the range on most of the Imperial’s Weapons are laughable. I honestly believe I can throw a football farther. Look at the games (since that is as close as we are going to get to “real” numbers). In X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter the Imperials weapons were very under-ranged. In Star Fleet Battles the Enterprise simply can reach out and touch someone.
All this silly talk of Micro Jumps? Bah! I say. The Hyperdrive of the SW universe is about as fragile as most Star Wars Fan’s ego (i.e. very fragile). Look at the Millineum Falcon, if you even look at it funny the Hyper Drive breaks down, and it is supposed to be the fastest ship around. In addition it takes a while to plot these micro jumps, The Enterprise can go to warp on the fly and simply out manuever and bleed the ISD to death with 1,000 needle pricks.
And another thing thats makes the Imperial Forces look so pitifull is the pure size differance. The ISD is close to 1 mile long, while the Enterprise is 600 Meters long (with a good portion of that being taken up by warp naucelles (sp?)). This fight would be the equivalent of a 120 lbs. boxer (Enterprise) beating a 180 lbs. boxer (Star Destroyer). The ISD should simply pack up its toys and go home before it is made into the Enterprise’s bitch.
Hell after facing down the Borg the Picard could probably make Wesly Crusher Captain and the Enterprise would still when.
You know these Star Wars fans never cease to amaze me. Now I love Star Wars as much as anyone but come on now!
Vadar couldn’t kill some pimply faced kid. Picard would whip him with a quick phaser blast. Kirk, well he would break out the classic Kirk-Fu ™ and probable eat Vadar alive. I mean Kirk has faced down everything from Klingon to near omnipotent beings claiming to be God. Some guy on a respirator and running around with a cape and lame gaurds dressed in red carrying sticks would be no match for any of them, even Janeway.
Storm Troopers being able to sieze the Enterprise…Puh-leaze these guys couldn’t hit the broadside of the barn. The Iowa School of the Blind’s Marksmanship team are more likely to hit a target. Besides even if they did penetrate the ship a simply security forcefield would contain them. Then simply evacuate the air from the force field and the Storm Troopers are going to go bye bye!
What else? Once again the range on most of the Imperial’s Weapons are laughable. I honestly believe I can throw a football farther. Look at the games (since that is as close as we are going to get to “real” numbers). In X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter the Imperials weapons were very under-ranged. In Star Fleet Battles the Enterprise simply can reach out and touch someone.
All this silly talk of Micro Jumps? Bah! I say. The Hyperdrive of the SW universe is about as fragile as most Star Wars Fan’s ego (i.e. very fragile). Look at the Millineum Falcon, if you even look at it funny the Hyper Drive breaks down, and it is supposed to be the fastest ship around. In addition it takes a while to plot these micro jumps, The Enterprise can go to warp on the fly and simply out manuever and bleed the ISD to death with 1,000 needle pricks.
And another thing thats makes the Imperial Forces look so pitifull is the pure size differance. The ISD is close to 1 mile long, while the Enterprise is 600 Meters long (with a good portion of that being taken up by warp naucelles (sp?)). This fight would be the equivalent of a 120 lbs. boxer (Enterprise) beating a 180 lbs. boxer (Star Destroyer). The ISD should simply pack up its toys and go home before it is made into the Enterprise’s bitch.
Hell after facing down the Borg the Picard could probably make Wesly Crusher Captain and the Enterprise would still when.
Who were (will be?) overthrown by the Empire.
Who were (will be?) overthrown by the Empire.
Joe X, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Vader didn’t WANT to kill “some pimply faced kid”, he wanted to turn him over to the dark side. The Star Destroyer in Episode IV didn’t WANT to destroy the Tantive IV, it wanted to CAPTURE it. THe Millenium Falcon is a horrible example of Star Wars hyperdrive technology, mostly because it was given hundreds of modifications that made the ship into a huge, unstable mess.
In short, your examples aren’t very good examples at all.
-SPOOFE
And, Joe, as I’ve already said, take the measurements in the game with a grain of salt, please… if you’d read the rest of the thread, you’d know that those measurements contradict each other.
And with regards to stormtrooper fighting ability… it’s not like the Federation is any better of marksmen. So, can the colored commentary… that’s MY job, sir!
-SPOOFE
You know you love my color commentary Spoofe 
I also know that I misspelled win with “when” at the end of my little tirade. Flame away on my spelling abilities also
I’m sure there is some fan fiction out there covering a crossover from Star Wars and Star Trek.
The fact that they were attempting to capture Leia’s ship merely reinforces the arguement for the impotance of an ISD. Their Ion Cannons which supposedly could penetrate any shield had trouble stopping a meek diplomatic ship. Picard would simply laugh at the ISD.
Also for merely having 400 years of development time the Federation is doing quite well. The Old Republic has been around for 25,000 years. Everyone in the Star Wars universe should be a being of pure thought by now. But are they? No its still a big deal for the Empire to be able to destroy a planet. Hell us modern humans already have the ability to render a planet toxic to everything but bacteria and a cockroach.
As far as my not reading all of your post you can’t hold that against me. Since when does anyone here listen to the other side’s arguments?
Ok, I’ve lurked on this one so far, and I do think that the Federation is smarter (forget Kirk, I want Scotty on board), but a thought just occured to me: How many photon torpedoes does the Enterprise carry? Voyager, if I recall, only had about thirty when they were snatched… Were they short-stocked? Because even if the Enterprise were able to fire torpedoes with impunity, via microwarps or whatever you want to call them, it seems to me that they just wouldn’t have enough to kill an ISD.
By the way, a warp bubble is created by the ship in question, and remains connected to the rest of space, while hyperspace is presumably considered a natural phenomenon extending indefinitely, and is also presumably separated from normal space. I haven’t yet seen a GR model for hyperspace, so can’t say for certain.
“There are only two things that are infinite: The Universe, and human stupidity-- and I’m not sure about the Universe”
–A. Einstein
Joe_x wrote:
Actually, I was going to flame you for misspelling Vader as “Vadar”. What in heck is “Vadar”? Is that anything like Radar, or Gaydar?
Whadaya mean “a” crossover? There’ve been more SW/ST crossovers posted to alt.startrek.creative and, um, whatever the Star Wars fanfiction newsgroups are called, over the years than would fit in the Libraries of Coruscant AND Federation Headquarters combined.
Chronos wrote:
And they’ve fired at least twice that many since they’ve been in the Delta Quadrant.
I swear, the only thing more inexhaustible than Voyager’s photon torpedo supply is its supply of shuttlecraft. They must have lost, what, at least 90 by now?
Things like torpedoes can be replicated as long as there’s enough energy. Basically, a starship can be self-sufficient as long as there’s enough dilithium (I think that’s how it’s spelled). BUT (and you know there’s always a but) don’t go thinking that this means the Enterprise would have an unlimited supply of torps… it takes a while to replicate a torpedo (they are a little bit more complicated than, say, a cup of tea).
Joe, I apologize for snapping at you… I was stressed at the time. But what I say stands… no offense, but you didn’t bring up very good examples. Why? Because those were specialized cases, where faulty hardware was a means to further the plot. The same goes for stormtroopers… they were made out to be inept just to make the good guys seem so much cooler. If you want, we can assume that this Imperial-class Star Destroyer is one of those that the New Republic (the government that was formed from the Rebellion) had in their possession. But then that pits the Enterprise against a whole new set of foes, which probably wouldn’t be fair.
Anyway, didn’t mean to flame.
Anyway, with regards to the 25,000 years of the Old Republic… I think history has proven that levels of advancement can fluctuate wildly over the course of a thousand years or so… look at ancient Rome. After Rome fell, Europe entered the dark age… things like that could have happened dozens of times over the course of 25,000 years. Who knows? Maybe a century before the Galactic Civil War, teleporters and replicators were everywhere.
If you want an example of Star Wars advancement over Star Trek’s… look at the artificial intelligence. Sure, C-3PO is a whiny prick, but Data’s kinda stupid himself. And IG-88… he almost conquered the whole galaxy, and he was a mere assassin droid. So while Star Trek may appear to excel in some areas, Star Wars excels in others.
And besides… it’s really funny when the hydrospanners fall on Han and he screams “OW! CHEWIE!” If it was a tricorder, it would’ve been boring.
-SPOOFE
Don’t worry snap all you want, I’m thick skinned. This thread is about as serious as Ross Perot’s presidential run