Ethical efforts at dating? (rambling)

There’s a woman in one of my classes, about two years older than me, who I like and think is very attractive. I know that she at least likes me as a friend - I invited her to come to the broadcast of my radio show sometime, and she said she definately wanted to do so. We also talk pretty often about politics and related subjects - so in short, I don’t need to worry that she considers me to be entirely disagreeable. :slight_smile:

I met her last year, and at the time she had a boyfriend she was living with. A fellow I know mentioned that she’s living in a new apartment, which to me suggests that she may no longer be going out with her boyfriend.

So, I have a bit of a dilemma. This woman, if in fact she is “available”, is very unlikely to remain so for long - she’s pretty, smart, kind, and an all-around remarkable person. So from that perspective, it would ill-behoove me to be too timid.

On the other hand, I am naturally timid, and so I lack the nerve to ask her “say, did you break up with your boyfriend over the summer”? And I suspect that such a question would entirely justify a swift kick to the groin. :slight_smile: And even if she is single, she may simply be uninterested in a relationship right now.

So, to summarize: I really like this girl. I know she likes me, but not how much, and it’s unlikely she likes me in a romantic way. I do not know if she is single, but it seems like there’s a significant chance.

So, here’s the question: What, if anything, can I ethically do here? Considering that I want to be her friend, even if I can’t be her boyfriend, it would seem the logical thing to do is invite the woman in question to do normal friend things, hang with her and so forth, and under NO circumstances make any sort of move - unless she starts something, of course. :slight_smile: I feel that this course of action would be fun (doing things with friends always is) and potentially lead to “bigger and better things”, or at least to information about the possibility of a romantic relationship.

Reading this over, I realize I might sound sort of cold and calculating - I’m not, really, but I am socially inept, and so I’m trying to work this whole thing out as logically as possible. Is my thinking correct? Am I being too cautious? Not cautious enough?

If you’re trying to be her friend in anticipation of “bigger and better things” to happen later, give up now. Women almost never, 99% of the time, scarcely, rarely date their “friends”. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule. but it’s essentially a lost cause. Once you’re in friend territory, there’s no going back. So I suggest you either seize the opportunity now and ask her out (if you’re hell bent on this girl) or forget about you ever having a chance with her, dating wise.

Thanks for the advice - can’t say it’s encouraging :), but thanks. I don’t mean to be a jerk about it, and I know it isn’t needed, but just out of simple curiousity - do you happen to have a cite on the “women don’t date friends” thing?

Well, I don’t have a scientific study in friend of me, but it’s an unwritten rule. I can tell you I have never seen a women date a close friend, and I know copious others who’ve seen the same.

Is there someone you could ask to see if she’s still involved with the boyfriend? Then, if she’s not, you could ask her out to dinner or something. If there’s no one you could ask, I’d still recommend asking her out. If you like her that much, you would be kicking yourself if you let the opportunity pass you by.

There’s little more miserable than being close friends with someone who you want to be more than friends with.

I say, ask her out regardless. If she values your friendship, and is seeing someone, it most likely won’t break your frienship. If she’s not seeing someone, then you may get really lucky and she’ll go out with you. If she’s not seeing someone, and just doesn’t want to date you, again, she’ll still probably make a point of not losing you as a friend.

Don’t ask her where her boyfriend is dummy! Try saying something like this. “You look great…So how is your love life?” You compliment her first and then ask how she is doing in the specific area where you would like to be. :b If she says she is seeing someone then that answers the BF question, but if she is not affirmative with an answer then you might could come back with “You know I might just have an answer for you.” Carpe Diem!

Well, women don’t date male “friends” while they have a boyfriend. But the possibility absolutely exists that she’s interested in Mr. Excellent (and who wouldn’t be, with a name like that?), but has refrained from acting on her interest because she is/was seeing someone else. I’ve dated a few guys that I was “friends” with while seeing someone. Meaning, I was interested in them, but couldn’t ethically act on that interest while I had a romantic relationship with someone else, but when that relationship ended, I … expanded, shall we say, my relationship with my male friend.

Ah, the so called ‘friendship zone’…

How old is this lady?

I think somone put it like this “Its like cow patties, the older they are, the easier they are to pick up”. took me a day to figure that one out :slight_smile:

Make a move as soon as you can, but try not to be awkward. See how she responds to physical touch (non-private parts, arms/hair etc.) and then kiss her goodnight if she seems receptive. If she turns you down, don’t plead or argue, just accept it and tell her you’d like to remain friends.

Let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the thoughtful answers, there’s a lot of really good advice in here. Handy, this woman is a very new cow patty, to use your quote - 22, maybe 23. She’s an undergrad senior and I’m a sophomore.

Well, if I were in her shoes (based on the information given and the assumption that she likes you), I wouldn’t be too upset if you asked me on a date or something, even if I weren’t interested. I don’t think it’ll affect your friendship if you’re polite about it and take a ‘no’ seriously. Good luck!

I suggest you show a little more confidence when speaking with her than you do in describing your relationship with her! Try not to see this through the “I’m really lame” veil that so many of us see through a lot of the time. Remember that you’re just as good as anybody else and you two dating would be just as much a score for her as it is for you.

I hate the friendship zone theory, personally. Its pretty rare that I’m interested in anybody except my friends. (This is not counting random stranger lust. This is actual “I want to date you on a long term basis” intrest.)

Why would I be interested in someone I don’t know anything about over someone who I know I can spend 37 hours straight with, and be laughing most of that time?

I do have to admit, I’m with Medea’s Child on this one. But I’m a guy and that whole “friendship zone” train of thought is more of a female thing.