Europeans: If you don't date, what do you do?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve had many Europeans tell me that the American rituals of dating and steady relationships are, so to speak, foreign to them. “We don’t date,” I heard, over and over from Euro students when I was in college. Thing is, though, I never got an adequate explanation of how they did interact with the opposite sex.

The most vocal of all these was my Austrian roommate, who felt compelled to inform me of this almost every day, and somewhat combatively, as if trying to prove that there was something wrong with dating. However, she arrived carrying a torch for one young man, which took a long time dying (and I had to hear all about that, too), so apparently Europeans do have a concept of commitment.

So what happens between being strangers and being married? Do you just go out in groups? Do you never pair off until you’re ready for the altar, or if you don’t wait that long, what indicates that you’re committed to each other? How do you get to know someone well enough to know that you want to be exclusive? Uh…That’s about all the questions I have, because I’m not even clear on what it is that I don’t understand.

2

Frankly, I’m calling their bluff. I think they do date. I know some who date. I think the ones who say they don’t date are using a very narrow definition of the term as they understand it happens in the US (as gleaned from countless Hollywood movies). So the European male doesn’t give the European female his class ring and his letterman jacket, or however they imagine it happens in America – big deal. They still pair off and have boyfriends and girlfriends just like people everywhere.

3

Most Europeans who don’t date, masturbate like a motherf*ck. :smiley:

Yes, Europeans do date. But their are notable differences. For example, it’s sort of common in America to be able to see multiple people at the same time, and it’s an OK thing as long as none of the “relationships” are in an advanced stage. Correct me if I’m wrong, of course.

This wouldn’t go over well in most European countries I know of. It certainly doesn’t go over well in Holland, I can assure you…

Also, the “we are on a break” thing is a tad alien over here as well. While off-and-on relationships exist, the oft-used “we’re on a break” thing would not give you carte blanche to start dating other people per sé over here. Although for some it might, I don’t know.

But yeah, in essence, we don’t do it much differently from you guys. You meet someone, go on a couple of dates, you end up spending the night perhaps, talk is had about what this all means and where it’s leading, and boom, relationship. It’s not inherently different over here.

4

Would single-sex schooling have something to do with it? Meaning that, when teenagers do encounter the opposite sex, it’s usually in a group setting, and therefore it takes more time for relationships or whatever to get established?

If one person’s testimony counts for anything, a friend of mine who is British says that, while single-sex schools have recently been going by the board in the UK, the mentality hasn’t quite evolved as fast. One-on-one dating: yes (he says); snogging between classes: no.

On preview:

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In some parts of the country (Midwestern Rust Belt was my experience), you don’t get together with someone one-on-one unless you’re a couple; you decide you want to be exclusive before you go out, then stick to that. In more urban areas, it’s what you said.

Really?! Because that’s very much the opposite of what my classmates told me. (However, none of these people were Dutch.)

Well, all right then! Because one thing that I heard, from more than one person, that the idea of the boy “calling on” the girl, as in meeting at her house before a date, was unthinkable unless they’d reached the engagement stage. (And again, this was presented in the context of “You Americans are so uptight and backwards”.)

5

After many a similar conversation I came to an idea: The distance between kissing and making love is further in the USA than in Europe. And I use the term making love to differentiate from one-night-stands, which happen all over the place.

In the USA, as Coldie says, people will go out with a few people on ‘dates’, enjoy them, then have a nice kiss at the door before they go their seperate ways. Enjoyable, friendly, and socially acceptable to tell your mother. There might be one person with which you have sex, but they know you are ‘dating’ and that the whole deal could come to an abrupt end.

In Europe, the people would be going out with their friends as groups, or maybe even go to a movie or dinner or ??? as a couple. But, once the decision/situation arises and a kiss is engaged in, then the decision to move to the bedroom is pretty much already made. If you are going to get emotional enough to swap spit, then you are almost all the way there.

If you look at younger folk, then the differences between the USA and Europe can be even greater. The USA and the puritanical avoidance of teenage sex means that most teens end up blowing each other in the backseats of cars or at a home where the parents aren’t home. In Europe (big brush strokes here) a teenage girl can have her boyfriend stay the night and they will wake up and have breakfast with mom and dad. It wasn’t until I was in College that I stayed at a girl’s house with her parents knowledge, and that was a HUGE deal. Here (Czech) my wife and her friends told me that that wasn’t uncommon in high school, and most people in college that were snoggin were bringing partners home for the weekend.

As for evidence of some of this, I submit my relationship with my wife: We were friends while I did an exchange program. We went out in groups, we danced, drank, had fun, etc. She had a boyfriend, I had a girl I was ‘dating’. We were just friends. 10 months later and 10,000 miles away we met in Seattle. I picked her up at the bus station and noticed that somehow our relationship must have changed because her tongue was in my mouth (another friend was there and was standing back with a knowing smile on her face). That night while working out sleeping conditions in my brother’s house I said “Friend, you are sleeping on the couch over here…and Future Wifecat, you are sleeping with me.” We’ve been married 8.5 years now and have a 3 year-old girl :wink:

Technically, we never had a ‘date’. There was lots of interaction, but the dating thing was not what brought us together. There was no progression of stages of interest and emotion. It went from friend to relationship with no transition in between.

-Tcat

6

I’ve never been on a date, and would probably break several taboos if I ever should be invited. There seem to be all kinds of unwritten rules to American dates I know little about. I’ve met all my girlfriends at parties and such (including my current cute little wife, whom I met at the worst pot-smoking joint in Christiania/Copenhagen).

7

Are you talking about Rachel and Ross? I think a lot of the humor from that story arc was the total lameness of the “We were on a break!” idea. I can’t imagine that going down well with anyone that I know.

The closest I’ve ever heard of its happening was in high school. A girl I had a big old crush on ended up falling in love with a drummer (ain’t that always the story?) They dated for a long time and planned on getting married. But then she started freaking out about never having sex with anyone besides him, and when this other guy, a juggler (a juggler! I got upstaged by a juggler!) made the moves on her, she had a one-night stand with him.

When her boyfriend found out, he broke up with her furiously. And then he went and had sex with a prostitute, out of some sense of vengeance or something. Once he’d done that, the two of them got back together.

High school.

Daniel

8

Really, I tend to prefer the European way of doing things. Here’s how it works for people my age.

You meet a guy or girl at some place. Maybe you introduce yourself, or maybe its a friend of a friend, whatever. If you have a good converstaion, and things go well, you’ll swap phone numbers.

Now what happens next is that you’ll be going out with friends, and you send a text message to said person, and if there really is a desire to see each other you usually try to make it around to where they are to continue the talk.

I think its great, because if it starts to go sour you can just go away, and if it goes well then… well you know.

I heavily prefer that, to be honest. If you do really like each other then you don’t have to worry about not seeing them because they’ll find a way to see you.

The crucial part here is the SMS. Its just impersonal enough to not be awkward. It would really be strange to call someone that you met just once in a lot of cases, but the SMS can be a good way to suggest things without overreaching.

Also, the dinner date is the worst. Sitting right across from the other one? Man that sounds bad. I’d rather be sitting to someone’s side anyway.

9

One part that is different is that in Europe most high school aged kids don’t drive. In the US, they either have a car or borrow the family car. In Europe, because the driving age is 18 or so, and having a car is more expensive and less common, teens generally don’t go to each others’ houses. They all meet at a bar or club in a group. I’d say it was somewhat common for the guys I was involved with (years ago, in Spain) to make sure I got home OK, which gave us some time alone, but picking me up at the beginning of an evening out was not at all typical.

The actual relationships were not all that different, IME.

10

Thanks for the replies, and sorry I took so long to respond!

Harriet, that’s a good point, and one that I forgot I’d been told about.

Merk: That’s not too different from what goes on here. But what did you do before text messaging? That said, what is so agonizing about sitting across from someone? Do you have a hangup about watching people eat? I know there are some American girls who let selfconsciousness take control of them to the point where they physically can’t eat in front of a guy they’re interested in. But it’s not that commonplace, and anyway, I always thought two people at a cozy table in a cafe or bistro was very romantic!

Left Hand: Good heavens. Yeah, we don’t usually get that ambitious in high school. Well, maybe in New York, I dunno.

Tomcat, that is also a good point, and your post has cleared up a lot of my confusion.

Somewhat related anecdote: When I was in college, I had a TA (graduate student) who’d spent a year abroad in Italy. She told me about how she’d spent part of that time with a guy, in a situation that Americans would call “friend with benefits”. Meaning, she wasn’t looking on it as a long-term relationship; she just enjoyed spending time with Swoony Roman Guy, and was prepared to file him in the memory drawer when she returned to the US.

But towards the end of her stay, she noticed him getting rather apprehensive, and concluded that he was planning to surprise her with an engagement ring, or at least ask her to stay. She was all prepared with her “I like you a lot and it’s been terrific, but…” speech when he told her that the woman he was planning to marry was returning from her foreign study soon. He assured her that while “Lucia” was his real love, he treasured the future TA as “a friend and a lover”. After ducking in anticipation of crockery that was not thrown, he added that he’d been dreading this converstation, because friends who’d been in similar situations had warned him that American women tend to take this sort of announcement very badly. He was glad, if surprised, that she wasn’t reacting that way.

So I’d say there are not necessarily across-the-board American attitudes about dating, love and sex. Some people are okay with “friend with benefits”. Some want commitment or nothing, and some hit the road at the first sign of commitment.

As far as strictly dating, though, I will say that American teenagers have a great tendency to get jealous, sometimes over the tiniest things. Based on what I’ve read here, it doesn’t seem that Europeans are quite so possessive and paranoid. Which probably increases your lifespan.

11

Like what?
I’m honestly curious…

I figure that the whole “who pays for what” thing might get confusing… but we don’t really have any rules about that either. In general each couple decides on their own.

I’m kinda drawing a blank here… if you go out on a date, you hang out with someone, make conversation, and if they’re interested you get some heavy petting going.

What rituals do you see as someone outside American culture? I’d imagine it’s an interesting perspective…

12

My opinion:

Generally no, you don’t have 3 or 4 one the go at once until you decide which you like best. Therefore, there is no such thing as “going steady” or “being exclusive”. You’ve already decided that by the second date (you don’t GET a second date unless the person can see themself with you).

There’s less “dinner and a movie” style dating, more “come to the pub for a drink with my mates”, “come round and we’ll watch a DVD” or “my friend’s having a party, why don’t you come”, although the first date is usually going out for a meal or drinks.

The “three date rule” isn’t really there either. Because by agreeing to go out with this person you’ve already made a commitment to be exclusive to them, there isn’t the whole waiting around for weeks before you sleep with them. Tomcat’s right, if you’ve got to a goodnight kiss and a second date, you’re going to sleep with the person (personal beliefs permitting).

“Friends with benefits” is usually for people who aren’t in any other kind of relationship, with the understanding that the “benefits” stop should an actual prospect for either person appear on the horizon.

13

In my experience, that’s a movie thing, not a real-life thing. Aside from the occasional “Oh my, I have no boyfriend and in the same week 2 guys asked me out, what do I do?” type scenario, most people I know date one person at a time exclusively.

14

I dunno. American movies seem to make a lot of the car the man drives. And then how to pick up the girl at her home. And when she’s supposed to kiss him. Something about bases. Rings also seem to be very much important.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, and there are no secret rules. I just saw that a few years ago, a lot of articles were written about some books having been written about “the unwritten rules of dating”. I didn’t read the articles, but I figured if there’s a book worth of unwritten rules to dating, there’s a lot I knew nothing of.

15

Well, yeah, movies do. IRL, though, that should only be a dealbreaker if the woman is particularly shallow.

Walk to door. Ring doorbell. When girl appears, say, “Hi, you ready?” If she’s living with her parents, and they answer, exchange polite greetings, perhaps some small talk, then leave with girl. If she’s particularly young, they may ask a question or two about where you’re going and when you’ll be back, but contrary to what teen comedies claim, they are not trick questions.

Whenever she feels like it.

Holdover from the days when people pretended sex didn’t happen. If you could break it down into stages, it seemed less scary. These days, mutual consent can be worked out between both partners without artificial constructs.

They’re as important as you want them to be. Basically, if you give a ring to a girl, it usually signifies commitment. Not always, though. And plenty of people are committed without a ring.

All in all, there are no hard-and-fast rules that will cause a girl to say, “Are you crazy? I won’t go out with you if you do this/don’t do that!” Only a few taboos. Demanding sex on the first date doesn’t go over too well. Neither does taking a girl somewhere, then ignoring her all night. But if you really want to be with someone, you’ll ignore any and all “rules”.

People are complicated.

16

Great story, Tomcat!

17

No. Only a tiny minority are educated in single-sex schools, and there’s no particular tradition that would affect the majority. Tell your friend they’re wrong :wink:

In general, I agree with the other comments - there’s no formality about ‘dating’, ‘going on a date’ etc., but that doesn’t mean there’s any fewer unwritten rules and codes of conduct.

18

But at what point does it become exclusive? My impression was that “dating” becomes “relationship” at some point (3 or 4 dates? I have no idea), and until then it’s not exclusive and going out with other people isn’t considered cheating.

19

Ok, what I get so far is:

Europeans DO “date”, it’s just that obviously they don’t use that word and that it involves diferent parameters of place, time, and manner – as would be reasonable to expect from a culture that has evolved differently in place and time. Still Boy meets girl, or boy meets boy or girl meets girl… oh what the heck, let’s call it A meets B… as we were: anyway A meets B in a social context, there is an potential attraction, some further social interaction confirms the attraction is worth pursuing, there’s a pairing off into acting as a couple (sex involved if agreeable to all parties). The American and European differences as described so far are along the lines of collateral aspects or intermediate steps.

A Euro-type who tells an American “oh, we don’t date”, is likely misusing an interpretation of the “dating” concept gleaned from American entertainment media – who, of course, we just know how much they can be trusted for socioculturally accurate portrayals; and it just may not have crossed his/her mind that whatever they were raised to view as “the process of meeting someone socially and getting together and then doing things as a couple, sexually and socially” could be also called that. (And now and then there may be one who is saying this in an effort to be patronizing or condescending, or even defensive, about levels of cultural sophistication.)

BTW Rune, regarting those books about “the Rules?” (including one CALLED “The Rules”, although it was more oriented towards maintaining a long-term marriage). If someone is selling me a books about “secret” or “unwritten” rules about human relationships, I tend to be skeptical as hell, because if indeed the rules are secret and unwritten, the author could just be pulling it all out of her arse and I would not know any better, would I?

20

Well, that’s what he meant. It was really another co-worker doing most of the asking, but he told us that the stereotype of the heavily repressed, single-sex eductated British teen, who becomes painfully awkward on the rare occasion that they encounter a member of the opposite sex, is just that: a stereotype. According to him, the SSschool experience is mostly “the really posh schools, who’ve always done it that way.” (It was amusing to hear him switch from his normal accent to a “posh” one for that one word.)

As for the no-snogging-in-the-corridors policy, well, that may have been a regional thing where he was. Which is another source of confusion, it seems. Different communities and different regions within the same country may be wildly divergent.

And that was my roommate. Well, she just really didn’t want to be in America, or anywhere away from her SO. No reason to be rude, though. :dubious: