Hey Guys!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I am 3 freakin 8 years old and been divorced for 10 years. You would think I would have figured you men out by now.

Please tell me what I am missing.

I am currently seeing 3 guys. All three are the type of relationship that they call me up, ask me out to a movie or dinner or in the case of one of the guys, hiking. We go out, have a great time, they bring me home, walk me to the door, kiss goodnight, then say goodbye. I have not yet slept with any of them although I NEED to SOON, but that is another entire thread.

Call me an old fogey, but I am not the type to be sleeping with more than one man at a time. However, I would love to be in an open relationship with two men. Again, that is another thread.

So my questions to the SD men are as follows:

What is it about the words “Casually Dating” that is so hard for you to understand?

Why must I be made to feel that I am cheating on the other two when I am out with one?

Why do I have to put up with the pout treatment when you find out that I went out the night before with another man? Are you trying to make me feel guilty? For what?

Why do you ask what I did the night before if you really don’t want to know?

Since when does dating someone casually actually mean you are boyfriend/girlfriend?

If you want to ask me out, why do you wait until the last minute to call and then feel bad that I already have plans?

Damn, they say that women are hard to understand. :rolleyes:

2

Because even if you just “like” someone and are “just dating” them then to see them go off and do that with another person, obviously not liking YOU enough just kinda stings.

What is dating? Its the “I think I will pick…” part in the begining of a relationship.

3

I agree with you Wammo, but if I don’t want to feel hurt that someone I am ONLY dating is also dating others, I simply don’t ask.

I guess what I am mostly looking for is the male definition of “casual dating” when it doesn’t involve sex.

4

What’s hard to understand? I wouldn’t want my (hyptothetical) girlfriend to be in a romantic relationship with someone else. I would not want her attentions diverted elsewhere. Even if we weren’t strictly bf/gf yet, and she was just trying to see if we were compatible, I certainly wouldn’t want her doing the same with others. After all, if I’m to be given a fair “trial” to determine my worth, she would need to focus on me and only me.

To me, going out with more than one person at any given time is being a “player”.

5

It’s just like with male animals. We are trying to maximize the spread of our genetic material while minimizing the spread of that of other males.

Casual dating by a male involves the hope of sex.

Casual dating by a female is an alien concept since each male is undoubtedly, in his eyes at least, the optimal candidate to father your children.

Just be happy none of them kill any of your kids he didn’t father. Reflecting on this may not make the whining less annoying, but it’s a better choice.

6

Sorry, I kinda just ranted up there. I appologize. To show how sorry I am, I’ll now answer Diane’s questions as directly as I can:

Since when is romance of any sort “casual”? And if it’s not romantic, then it’s not really dating then, is it? I guess I consider the term an oxymoron.

If everyone involved knows exactly what’s going on, then I don’t think it’s cheating at all. If one of the men doesn’t know that you’re also seeing two others, I’d consider that cheating.

Ever heard of jealousy?

I have no idea why anyone would do this.

Because boyfriend/girlfriend is usually defined as the person you’re dating. If the person isn’t really your boyfriend or girlfriend, and you just hang out together and stuff, I don’t consider that a date: I consider that hanging out together and stuff!

Hey, don’t look at me! I’ve never even asked you out before. But now that you mention it, what are you doing this weekend? :wink:

And they’re absolutely right. :slight_smile:

: runs and hides :

7

Black Knight - Player? :rolleyes:

I meet a man, there is a mutual attraction, and we decide to spend some time together getting to know one another, why should I turn him down? There is no ring on my finger. I am not looking for a husband or a father for future babies (I’m done having kids), but someone to spend time with and have fun. I don’t know if I have the desire, energy, or need to be in a more committed, one on one relationship right now. Simple facts that I make perfectly clear from the beginning.

Now let’s say that I meet someone else who shares my love for the outdoors and hiking. He begins calling to ask me to go hiking and other activities. We both feel a mutual attraction and enjoy spending time together. Again, I am honest and don’t let him believe that we are in a “relationship”.

I meet a third guy who is a total knock out! I don’t know a lot about this guy other that the fact that he makes me drool at both ends. He asks me out and we date a couple of times. So far he is great!

In all three cases, I do not yet know any of these guys well enough to know if I want to be in a more permanent, exclusive, and sexual relationship. We are simply getting to know one other while we enjoy each others company. I was in a year long relationship that ended last January and I also have a long distance, complicated relationship with someone that has been going on for 10 years (ex-fiance who used to live near me. I still visit him a couple of times per year).

I don’t want the responsibility of a serious relationship right now. Should that disqualify me from dating? I think not!

You always hear “Go out with a couple of different people, take things slow, and don’t get serious with anyone for a while” whenever anyone offers advice to those coming out of a painful break up or long term relationship.

Okay, so tell me why this is so hard for men to do?

8

I wouldn’t get too worried about it, Diane, some men are just insecure. they think freedom to date around is a fine idea in the abstract because they’re thinking of THEMSELVES doing it, not YOU. but when YOU do it, he’ll start thinking you’re going to like the other guys better, or worse, that you’re going to compare him to the others and he’ll come up short. So to speak.

I for one would not have a problem with being in a relationship like the one you describe…if I weren’t married, that is. Or if I could get my wife to agree to it… grin

9

I don’t know, why do you feel guilty? If you don’t think you are doing anything wrong don’t feel guilty about it.

As for why they don’t like the idea, they like you Diane and they feel insecure. People often times are unsure about their attractiveness to other people. These men want to spend time with you, but feel they could lose you to someone else. I think it is clear that these men see the relationship as more serious than you do. They find it difficult to express how they feel because that could open them up to real pain if you choose the other guy. So as a result they try to manipulate you by making you feel guilty.

That said, you aren’t doing anything wrong, so don’t let yourself be manipulated. As long as everyone is aware of the situation, you aren’t cheating on anyone. At some point you’ll have to choose, but I think you already know that. However, it is a bit much to expect these guys to be happy about the situation.

Just to answer this last question, its not difficult if they see the situation the same was you do. However, if they know they want to be with you, this situation can be excruciating. They are in relationship limbo, vulnerable but not committed. Just my opinion, of course, take it or leave it.

10

Personally, I can’t see anything wrong with what you’re doing, Diane.

You’re up front with the guys. They all know you’re dating other men. You’re not forcing any of the guys to commit to you. They have fun when they’re with you. Hm.

Hey Diane…if you ever get a free weekend, and you decide not to go out with BlackKnight…:wink:

11

I have to agree with Black Knight on one thing-if you are not having sex or being physically intimate in some way, then it is not a relationship. You are just friends. If these guys are upset that you are with other guys, I agree with the other posters that this is probably a sign that they are hoping for more. Having said that, I do agree with Persephone too though that you have not done anything wrong. You told them up front how it will be. BUT, you can not blame them for hoping. It is natural. If these guys are smart, they will start looking in a more broad circle for a woman who will give them what they want. But then, YOU would not have them anymore, would you Diane? :slight_smile:

p.s.- If they start looking elsewhere, do not try to stop them. It is a SURE way to make you look like a total bitch. I had a so-called friend do this to me recently. We do not speak anymore, and I say good riddance. Do not be like her.

12

Just a suggestion…(and one you probably don’t need)

I dated a woman for a short while that seemed to make a point of telling me that she was seeing other men, what they did; where they went, etc. Maybe it was her way of being upfront, I dunno. Or else, it could have been her way of saying, “You’re nice, but don’t get too involved, since I haven’t found you interesting enough to date you exclusively.”

(My insecurity showing there? Possibly, but unlikely, since I’m pretty secure to begin with.)

But I don’t think that anyone, male of female, likes to be told that they’re being compared to someone else.

The suggestion: If they ask, tell them. If they don’t, don’t.

13

From what you’ve described Diane, I don’t think you’re cheating on them, because I don’t think you’re really “dating” them. It sounds like you’re just hanging out and having a good time. I don’t got a problem with that. :slight_smile:

Lizzard - I didn’t quite say that lack of physical intimacy = lack of relationship. I used the word romance, which to me includes physical intimacy, but isn’t restricted to it.

14

Getting called and asked to go on a DATE is just a date. Go on a hundred dates… who cares, right?

DatING is more involved, more frequent seeing each other, but not quite to the point of committing yourself to only seeing that one person, but definately on the way there.

If these guys are leaning towards something a little more permanent/steady then all you can do is reinforce that you are not ready for that. If they are just calling to go out sometimes, they have no right to get jealouse, or upset if you have plans.

If you are not sleeping with any of them, then they certainly have no hold on you… you haven’t even alluded(sp?) that there is more of a future with them.

I think they ask to be polite and interested in your life… and when you answer that you were out with another friend, it makes them a little jealouse that he is not the center of attention for you, even if they don’t want to be jealouse or committed to you.

As for calling at the last minute, I think they think " hey, I’d like to_________" and they figure you’d like to do that too. So immediately they think “yeah, Diane would like to hang with me and do________” and when you have plans they are disappointed because they had made up their minds to hang woth you.
I could be very wrong here…:smiley:

15

Okay, so I just got home from one of these dates and decided to check this thread. I need to make a few things clear since there have been some things hinted at.

I am DATING these guys, not just hanging out, dating. I have a lot of hanging out guy friends, this is not the case with these three. These men call me up, ask me out, we hold hands, kiss, flirt, hold back our belches and farts, everything else you do on a date except for the end of the night roll in the hay. The dates are very romantic and physical (I am a naturally physical person) although there is not sex involved. I see all three on a fairly regular basis. It’s dating, trust me.

I have never offered detailed information about where I go, what I do, or who I do it with. What I have told them is that I do not want to be in a committed relationship right now, although I am not opposed to it if and WHEN the time is right. That I am not seeing anyone specific, that I want to be able to see other men. I have told them that I I will not have sex with them until or if things become more serious (although I am getting very close to sexually attacking one of them very soon :D).

I get the impression that at least two of these guys are not seeing anyone else. My guess is that the other guy is. To be honest, it doesn’t bother me in the least. I don’t want to be in the awkward situation of seeing him and a date in public and I don’t want to hear the details of his dates so I don’t ask, but they all have every right to see other people and I won’t lose any sleep over it if they do. No threat of me telling them not to see anyone else.

I have been very honest with my feelings as opposed to being brutally honest with details of my dates.

If I find out they are sleeping with someone, then it’s over. I am not fond of shotgun toting jealous women and I don’t want sloppy seconds.

I’m sleepy. I’ll respond to the rest tomorrow. Thanks everyone for your comments!

Nitey-nite. :slight_smile:

P.S. Black Knight, I was busy this weekend but I am free next Friday. :wink:

16

The key is often defining the terms. Non-exclusivity is OK as long as all parties involved agree. I may be stating the obvious here, but it struck me as signifigant (for some reason).

17

This is what I’m having trouble understanding. You don’t understand why they’re upset when you date other guys, but if any of them sleep with anyone it’s over. I’m seriously not trying to be mean here, but if it’s alright for you to date other people, why is it not alright for them to sleep with other people?

I admit my ignorance in matters of relationships, though, having never actually been in one.

Well then, let the other three know that I’m their new competition! :wink:

18

Ok, Diane, here’s the skinny.

quote>>>>>>What is it about the words “Casually Dating” that is so hard for you to understand? <<<<<<<<<<<

We understand it very well. Most of us play this game. We are dating 2 or 3 women, but it hasn’t gotten serious with any of them yet. We think it’s really cool. But, we are egomaniaclly (if that is a word) territorial. Meaning we don’t want womenz playing our little game.
My advise. Your policy should be a strictly ‘Don’t ask, Don’t tell’ thing until you figure out which one (or ones) you want to be intimate with. If they balk at that, forget 'em. They’re hypocrites.

Quote>>>>>>>However, I would love to be in an open relationship with two men. Again, that is another thread.
If you decide to do this, will at least consider me???

19

Sounds like it’s their problem. You’ve layed it out straight with them, and if they want to date you they have to deal with it. Sounds fair to me. It’s the guys who are being insecure.

The only difference between your dating philosophy and mine is that I draw the line at kissing.

Dr. Lao: I didn’t read any guilt on Diane’s part in the OP. She’s asking why the guys she’s dating seem so jealous.

Now, let’s get to the questions:

It’s a vague term, that means different things to different people. In your case, you’ve layed out the rules, so it sounds like the guys are only hearing what they want to hear.

They all want a relationship with you, or at least an exclusive “Casual date”. Contradictory? You betcha.

See above.

They want to hear you say something like “Oh, I WAS going to go out, but I couldn’t stand the thought that I might miss your call, oh Rightous Stud Boy.” They know they won’t hear that, but they really want to. Hell, I know I’ve tried to change reality by will power before. It’s not until I look at my actions with 20/20 hindsight that I realize just how annoying that is.

To some people, saying “Hi” means you’re practically engaged. I’ve tried to make it a practice to ask right out if the woman I’m dating wants to be my girlfriend.

A lot of guys (like me) are not very good at planning things. We think of something cool to do that night, and give you a call.

That’s the good interpretation.

The bad interpretation is that it’s a control tool. If you don’t know when they’re going to ask you out, then you can’t make other plans.

That’s the idea, anyway.

20

As far as I can tell from your posts, Diane, you have been up front and the onus of any hangups lies squarely on the guys, not you.

The only thing I can add from a guy’s perspective concerns how much kissing goes on. For me, once the line is crossed from a good-night kiss to couch-time in the dark with tongue and possibly a roaming hand, well, I would assume any woman doing that with me was doing that exclusively with me. To find out otherwise would put the kibosh on relationship development.

For me, the line hovers around sustained physical arousal and stimulation. I would not seek sexual arousal from more than one woman (I would feel duplicitous if I did), and I would hold any woman to the same standard. To me, once that line is crossed, it assumes something special enough to be considered an exclusive relationship.

However, this may not be the case at all with you and the fellas you are dating. I can make no assumptions as to just where along the line I mentioned above you may be with your dates. In fact, since you specifically mention that there is no sexual activity, my opinion may address future concerns rather than present.

Do you think, possibly, that you are giving off sexual vibes that a guy could interpret as an interest more serious than casual dating? He may be wrong in that interpretation, but it would not be inconceivable.