Bah. I don’t really care about CC censoring South Park - I imagine the writers are capable of dealing with that.
But I do not appreciate the “but it’s insulting” excuse at all when what is actually happening is that people get silenced by threads of violence just for making a really obvious criticism - the whole affair is so meta it’s not even funny anymore. I’ve got little problems with muslims in general, but “nobody has the right not to be insulted”.
So some more moron makers of a moron cartoon decide to head the yearly “Doodle the Prophet Mohammed Campaign” and then moron fringe-group Muslims come out on the internet to express their rage and then moron freedom fighters come out on the internet to express their rage and then the Cartoon Network gets a lot of attention for their show. Pretty slick.
Valteron I just want to let you know that I sleep more soundly knowing you are manning the ramparts of freedom. Please keep us informed on random individuals threatening cartoonists.
Weird, my dictionary only gives a one-word definition for “analogy”.
Analogy
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈna-lə-jē
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural anal·o·gies
Date: 15th century
1). Woosh
I agree that no one has the right not to be insulted. As I said, I have no problem with PZ Myers insulting Catholics or South Park insulting Muslims. But the question is: am I personally going to go out of my way to insult people purely to prove that I can. I don’t really see the upside. It upsets a bunch of people who had nothing to do with what I’m supposedly “protesting” against.
There’s a difference between saying people don’t have the right to not be insulted and in going out of your way to personally insult them.
This vast majority of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims in the west that we keep hearing about will perhaps be offended by the May 20 cartoons. And if they really are peaceful, law-abiding, and supportive of our western values, then they will do what Christians, atheists, Mormons or any other believers in western democracies do when their beliefs are mocked. Wheter it is Son-O-God comics or Apu on the Simpsons with his Hindu Shrine in the Quickie Mart, they suck it up, refrain from violence, and accept that this is part of living in a free country.
If they do not, then I find it hard to conceive of them as peaceful, law-abiding, or even worthy of living among us in our democratic country.
I’m on!
I don’t even like South park, but put me on the list. I’ll stand up for freedom.
I actually feel sorry for anyone whose belief in their god is so feeble, it can be affected by the insults of “infidels”.
You’re free not to do anything. But I do think there’s an upside to this sort of thing, even if it’s just giving the nutbags too many targets and showing the cowardly media they should care a little more.
I’m not sure what your saying? No one said that Muslims belief in God would be affected by the insults of infidals, just that they would be…well, insulted.
Is this a really weird strawman, or did I miss a post with the context?
The point of ridiculing their beliefs is to prod them into thinking for themselves, with the long-term aim of making their beliefs as important as someone’s support for their football team. And I don’t mean the type of football “fan” who wants to kill an opposing fan when their team is beat.
I disagree with this protest, but I will defend to the death your right to make it.
(Diogenes and Simplicio have covered everything else I might say here.)
This doesn’t really get to the problem, so far as I can tell. As I understand it, and I may be quite wrong, pictures of Islamic religious figures are inherently a problem, not just when lampooned or done mockingly. For a true comparison of values, it isn’t enough to simply draw Jesus, Krishna, Dawkins (Dawkins? Really?) et al, because most extreme or orthodox Christians, Hindus, atheists and so on don’t really have too much of a problem with that either. What would be needed for a fair comparison is to focus, not on the specific “crime”, but on the issue at heart - so really a fair comparison would require us to actually insult or offend or otherwise actually take the piss out of Christianity and so on. It’s difficult to show solidarity when only one of the examples actually has a problem there.
Anyway, it seems entirely moronic to support via insult. Freedom of expression is a worthwhile and important thing - and as such an important and worthwhile thing, I don’t feel the need to use mine on a cheap and ineffective stunt. It’s like trying to support a fight against consumerism by buying the Mona Lisa and burning it. It’s a waste of a powerful tool that’ll piss people off and won’t work. The only benefit is that people who already agree with you will agree with you. Which isn’t exactly a benefit.
I’m having a hard time getting worked up over this, but I’m also having a hard time dealing with cultural relativism and for that matter a hard time dealing with reality.
I’ve been watching South Park from the beginning, and every episode since its inception has been heavily censored.
To take this once step further, I’ve been watching the Amazing Race this season and in two separate episodes scenes of cows/oxes taking a shit were censored.
One option here is deal outwardly with the issue of Muslims being offended, by offending them more. Another option might be to look inward and our own issues off censorship and offense.
Because if we piss them off, they’ll try to kill us or force their religion down our throats!
Nobody likes having the piss taken out of them, but it isn’t the end of the world when it happens and how you react will greatly affect your future well-being. It can be avoided by changing the behaviour that marks you for attention, by not responding to such insults, or as should be the case, giving back as much verbals as you get. It’s not like us westerners are free of things to be mocked for.
What you do not do, is threaten to behead everyone who disses your specific magic sky pixie.
Am I the only one that finds it funny Fox News would report something as “the lowest point in the history of American TV?” At first I figured they were pissed at having been bested (worsted?).
Oddly enough I can’t find that comment in the Fox News article, it seems to be from a Globe and Mail opinion piece (here)
This also isn’t the first time South Park has pushed this issue.
The problem with this is that the focus seems to be more on the actual insulting part rather than the explaining or discussion part.
“Hey, you, fatty.”
punch
“Look, you can’t keep punching people, when they call you fat, you bucket of lard.”
punch
“You just don’t get it! You shouldn’t be hitting people, you disgusting overweight beast!”
punch
People tend not to respond well to insults. Simple as that. Even when you form your insult as highlighting an issue you wish them to stop - you’re still insulting them. Even worse if you’re doing it knowingly and deliberately. If insulting people as a form of argument worked, then Pit threads would be a happy, funtime place where rational discourse rules and people with glad hearts agreed with their worst enemies. It’s not. And it’s not for a reason. Insulting someone may feel good, and it may be an attractive option when you’re frustrated or annoyed or even justifiably angry. But it doesn’t work.
Valteron, please don’t use this board to try to get people to join a campaign. It’s against the registration agreement. I’m not going to close the thread down because the episode and the campaign are both valid debate topics, but keep this in mind in the future.
Yep, major overreaction/hissyfit. I’ve never felt the need to draw Mohamed. I’m not willing to fight for my right to draw Mohamed. The threat of a water balloon to the head is enough to dissuade me. If I had to animate him for a show, I guess it would take a little more, like a bag of dog doo perhaps.
I realize we are on a very slippery slope, lubed with the blood of democracy and KY. First, Comedy Central censors a show (and is mocked as spineless for doing it). Next, to go is the bacon. Then, they’ll be stapling hijabs on our women. Before you know it, BAM- minaret to the face!
When they go after the bacon, that’s the time to protest. The west still doesn’t negotiate with terrorists. Comedy Central has already been chastised in the media. If any Muslims actually care, let them have their petty victory. No skin off my teeth.
The point I’m making is that “civilised”, non-extremist type people shouldn’t get offended if someone pokes fun at their team, and it’s extremely hypocritical for people to react to verbal and visual insults with threats of physical violence, so the people who have these attitudes need to be smoked out and beaten around the head with a clue-stick.
Muslims could help here by reporting the nutjobs amongst their community anonymously. I wonder how much help we’ve received from them so far?