There’s no reason at all to be flattered. I was talking about this thread; you are one of the people posting in this thread.
And which people is that?
It was a joke, son, I say, I say, a joke.
I got you were trying to make a joke, it just doesn’t make sense
Malthus: That’s a strawman, that’s not what anyone’s saying
Me: yes, people in this thread are saying that
You: oh, I’m “people” now? How flattering!
But if you gave yourself a chuckle, that’s good.
But why is that a fallacy? We have been intervening in other nation’s elections and political systems for decades, and now we are upset that other nations are doing the same to us.
It is in reference to the emotional anger people have about us being influenced by a foreign nation, not the actual act itself which is unethical no matter who does it.
The Cold War was a long time ago. Nowadays a surprising amount of people on the right have favorable views of Russia, seeing it as some sort of white wonderland holdout where liberals know their place and men can be men. And die of alcohol poisoning.
[quote=“Wesley_Clark, post:65, topic:768215”]
But why is that a fallacy?QUOTE]
It’s a fallacy if you use a bad thing that someone did in the past to EXCUSE a bad thing that someone else is doing in the present.
IF, for example, someone were to say “It’s not a problem for Russia to interfere in US politics, because the US interfered with other countries in the past”.
THAT is not logical. BOTH acts of interference would be bad. One does not excuse the other.
I think what some were trying to say, though, was more along the lines of “don’t complain now that it’s YOUR ox being gored.” Not really excusing it.
It’s not a bad intuition pump against a hypocrite. Maybe they’ll have a revelation about themselves and change their whole worldview. Probably not, though.
Funny, I don’t recall doing that. So I can be angry at the Russian Government all I want.
It’s a fallacy because it suggests that somehow that anger is improper.
In fact, if you think about it, the “hypocrite” charge makes no sense at all.
Countries are not monolithic entities. Whatever dirty trick US government agencies did to improperly influence or negate the will of foreign voters, were not done by each and every citizen in the US who is currently a voter. In many cases, they were done secretly. Most of the really egregious ones were done decades ago, as part of the Cold War.
Doing dirty tricks to attempt to swing an election is an offence against the voters of the country which is the target of the dirty tricks. It is not an offence against the government agencies in those countries who inflict such dirty tricks.
Therefore, there is absolutely no “hypocrisy” in complaining of current dirty tricks, simply because agencies of one’s own government have inflicted similar dirty tricks on others.
Edit: Ludovic made the same point, but more succinctly.
As long as you are equally angry at your government when it did the same thing, otherwise well…, the H word comes to mind.
That’s not a fallacy. The US has interfered directly and indirectly in the democratic process of most countries. Since they felt that was their interest. The US should not be surprised that Russia is doing the same thing.
Interfere they certainly have. I would not say in “most countries”.
Again, countries are not monolithic. The fact a US agency has done bad things to citizens of other countries does not, and should not, temper the outrage if foreign agencies do similar bad things to US citizens.
The issue is not “surprise”, it is anger.
If someone punches you in the face, you are likely to be more angry about it than if someone authorized by your government punches a foreigner you have never heard of in the face thousands of miles away.
It is not hypocritical. It is simply reality.
Spreading disinformation is one thing. Actively hacking American’s emails and web sites is quite another.
It’s not just “setting up a Google Alert,” it’s selectively quoting the email that the Google Alert returned to falsely attribute two sentences from Eichenwald’s piece to Blumenthal. THAT bit of chicanery originated in Russia, and it doesn’t pass the laugh test to suggest that Bannon came up with that independently.
I understand the emotion, but, as someone who lives in South America I can not avoid finding a little amusement in americans complaining about other countries interfering in internal political matters…
Yes, because the United States has never done that.
Perish the tought!
I have mentioned twice in this thread now that the selective/mischaracterized quote was first spotted in a tweet hours before Sputnik published their story. The twitter account seems a typical American Trumpist.
And I’m not suggesting Bannon came up with it independently - merely that he copied it from the article or tweet without fact checking.