Ex-Gays, Revisited; or, When Are You Going To Give It Up Already?

Great Debates
#1

Hello, Gay Guy here, your resident One-Trick Pony (although based on my track record since I moved to San Diego, I think that number ought to be changed, or at least “At A Time” added on until further notice ;)), regaling you with yet another PlanetOut story (that I got off of Yahoo!). It’s been a while since I posted something like this, so I’m entitled (besides, there might just be a GD here).

So here’s the article I found dated February 1:

Yet another blow against Exodus - their “poster boy” John Paulk was caught in a DC gay bar about five months ago.

So are the “change” programs like Exodus ever going to admit/realize/give in that their programs simply don’t work? Or are we going to see more groups like one recently profiled on 20/20 (I do not have a link - I remember it was a group with “love” in it somewhere) that’s going to focus on changing a person’s behavior, rather than their actual orientation (i.e., either grit your teeth, think of the Queen, have sex with the opposite gender and think of England; or go the celibate route)? These, too, seem doomed to failure, although they are at least more realistic than trying to change something that is, by all personal accounts and professional opinions, innate to a person’s nature.

Have at it.

Esprix

#2

Oh, eventually, maybe. They’ll continue to decrease in number gradually, I think, but I think they’ll be around at least as long as the current variety of fundamentalist Xianity.

Absolutely. Many are starting to believe that being gay isn’t sinful, as long as you never have sex with a man, never look at a man lustfully, and never think about sex with men. Or something.

You think? Marks remains faithful to the vows he made to his wife." I mean, I don’t understand it one fucking bit, but I think there will always be people willing to be celibate for their faith. I agree that they will have a huge rate of recidivism, but I don’t know that the programs would be doomed.

#3

Based on the observation that we still have groups predicting the end of the world, I would have to guess no.

#4

Perhaps it’s more a thing made out of self-loathing, than anything else. When I hear talks of “ex-gays”, I can’t help it-my heart goes out to these people, who are obviously suffering from some serious internal problems within themselves. Trying to come to terms with their sexuality-trying to go so far to deny it…it’s very sad to hear about people who talk about “ex-gays.” Because I get a picture of someone hating him or herself.
:frowning:

#5

Señor OP Esprix, I do have a reply for this thread, but after typing it out (90%) and then having my internet connection die and take down my Netscape in the process (a rare occurrence but no less annoying for all that), I’m not up for the retyping and posting of it at this point. Please accept my rain check, accompanying promise, and apologies.

#6

So how come you haven’t posted anythnig in “sexuality and choice” (speaking of a buunch of folks who’d like you to grit your teeth and think of England)?

#7

I think of England when I have sex. Particularly if it’s with a cute English lad… rrowr

#8

What I don’t get is that all of the ex-gay people are religious. No athiests ever decide that they need to flip to the other side. Wouldn’t you think that this revelation would happen to “all” gays if there was any truth to it? It’s just another chapter in the book of Christian control over people.

#9

“Pony Boy, Pony Boy, Oh my one-trick Pony Boy!”

Hey, are there any ex-straight groups out there I can join? This whole heterosexuality thing is NOT working out for me. But since I have no attraction to women, I think I will need to be brainwashed or somethin’.

#10

You won’t get any debate from me young pony.
I do know a deacon in my church who Says he used to be gay, but now has been married happily for 12 years.
Was he gay before? I didn’t know him then.
IS he straight now? He Says so, I don’t know his heart however.
He says God healed him, he didn’t go through any organization.

Celibate for your faith? Yes, I personally am celibate til marriage, but thats different from living a lie; and besides, I can always marry, unlike gays.

#11

As a former (can’t emphasize that enough!) fundie, my current thinking is that regardless of your orientation, the bible is pretty clear about avoiding sexual fornication, which has mostly been interpreted as sex outside of marriage. Personally, I feel that having the State sanction a marriage isn’t what makes a marriage; it is the commitment before God, friends, and family that you are now a couple, one person, if you will.

Now, to me, I don’t see any reason why homosexual marriages should be outlawed. But that’s a whole 'nother topic in itself.

#12

Uh, been living under that rock long, vanilla? :slight_smile:

Gay couples can marry. Vermont even recognizes it as a civil union!

#13

Sorry, they didn’t tell Me…
Is this good in every other state too? If so, I gotta tell my friend Phil.

#14

I’ve been wondering a couple things, here. They might be better addressed on the ATGG threads, but what the heck.

First, are there more people in the closet in these churches than there are straight people living a gay lifestyle? If so, the money spent on these programs is ill-spent: if their goal is “all members are straight,” you’d think such an intolerant attitude would be better exercised by getting people to come out of the closet, then booting them out of the church. They’re obviously looking at the long haul here; they could have spent ten or fifteen years identifying gays in the church, then said “okay, everybody out of the pool…” Hey, it worked for the military. :rolleyes:

Second, how does anybody tell whether they’re straight-but-living-a-gay-lifestyle, or gay-but-living-straight, or whatever?

Third, if they’re willing to accept gays if they’re “celibate for their faith,” does this mean they would allow openly homosexual people to be ministers, or whatever they call them, assuming that such people in their church are required to be celibate? Double standard, if they’re not cool with that. “You can be gay, and a member of the congregation, but you don’t get to put the robes on. That’s for straights.”

#15

I think Guinastasia is absolutely right. The ex-gay movements will give up when there are not enough gays who hate themselves to support the movements. There seems to be no shortage of people (gay or otherwise) who hate themselves. So, sadly, I’d say they are not going to go away.

However, I think it is certainly good to point out their obvious failings and ask when they are going to give up.

Ethilrist, What the blazes does “straight-but-living-a-gay-lifestyle” mean?

#16

From the OP:

I thought the whole idea of the program was to help people living homosexual lifestyles switch to straight ones. If I was mistaken, I’m sorry.

#17

Until a case is brought before the Supreme Court to extend the “full faith and credit” clause to make gay marriages from Vermont legal in every state (which would mean overturning the Defense of Marriage Act), civil unions performed in Vermont have no meaning outside the state.

Regarding the OP, ex-gays are sad, stunted people who have been so brainwashed by religion that they need to crush their natural desire to love and be loved so they can obey the tyrannical will of an imaginary sky god. To quote Jed Clampett, “pitiful, plumb pitiful.”

#18

It will probably end at the same things like anorexia nervosa and bulimia end. Self-loathing is as old as time.
BTW, goboy, I believe in God, and I believe that God loves everyone. Period. I don’t think that if you are gay that means you can’t believe in God. Just find a religion that teaches love and tolerance.

#19

Hey, some ex-heteros need to “Give it up, already,” too.

Am I the only one who thinks Anne Heche is a lesbian poseur? I mean, I have no doubt she is consummating her lesbianism. She just appears to be … trying too hard.

#20

Which state outside of Vermont has to recognize this union?
Its a good step in the right direction but it isn’t enough.
Marc