Ex-Pats: Why and how did you move?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m semi-seriously considering moving to Australia, Melbourne specifically, and have all sorts of questions and concerns and worries and expectations about it, so I hope some of the ex-pat Dopers can help me out.

First off: Why did you move? I’d imagine that work or relationships, be they romantic or familial, probably are main reasons. Did anyone go just for the hell of it or for an adventure?

Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move? Other than my car and furniture, which I can sell or store, I can fit most everything I need into a couple of suitcases. I think. Was there anything that you realized not bringing was a grave oversight?

Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move? How long did it take for your new home to feel like home, if that happens at all? Do you miss your home country, and how often do you get back? Do you feel like you fit in with the new culture? Do the locals think you fit in?

Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with? It looks like the IRS still wants you to file even if you don’t live in the States; how do you handle that? How hard is it getting a bank account, place to live, utilities, etc. with basically no history?

Lastly: Are you glad you did it?

I’d love to hear any other advice, stories or whatever you think may be relevant.

2

First off: Why did you move?

Went on a vacation to Europe and wound up staying 14 years, mostly in Berlin.

Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move?

Went with a small suitcase and enough money to last me three months.

Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move? How long did it take for your new home to feel like home, if that happens at all? Do you miss your home country, and how often do you get back? Do you feel like you fit in with the new culture? Do the locals think you fit in?

Felt like home as soon as I got there - really. I never really missed the USA, other than some foods (Skippy peanut butter and other crap). I went back about every other year or so for about two to three weeks. I fit right in with the locals and after awhile, I actually had people think I was lying when I said I was an American.
Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with? It looks like the IRS still wants you to file even if you don’t live in the States; how do you handle that? How hard is it getting a bank account, place to live, utilities, etc. with basically no history?

Well, starting anywhere new is a financial hurdle. Even a new city in the US would have been a challenge. I never knew about the IRS thing until WAY after the fact and they sort of let it slide when I wrote and told them I was an idiot and didn’t know they cared. Bank usually don’t care what your nationality is, as long as you put money in them. Same with landlords and utilities, etc.

I eventually did move back to the USA, partly because I got fed up with the Berlin weather, and partly because I needed to wrap up some loose ends here with family and career.

Lastly: Are you glad you did it?

One of the wisest things I ever did in my life was to live abroad. Gave me a whole new perspective on life and I learned I can do whatever the hell I want to do if I set my mind to it. Plus, I met the love of my life there, met lots of great friends, learned a lot, saw a lot and basically lived my life exactly as I had always wanted to do. I have not one single regret.

I have always said that if I were King of the World, I would make it mandatory that every human being HAD to move away from their home country for a minimum of one year, just to get the realization that not everything they know and do is “normal” and that not everything different from their daily routine is “abnormal”. When I hear people talk trash about foreign countries and cultures, without any personal experience whatsoever, it make me want to whack them upside the head.

3

Q: First off: Why did you move?

The woman who would become my wife lived here. We looked into her moving to Canada, but it was going to be rough going, so I came here instead. That was when you could still come here and marry an American and be allowed to stay and apply for landed immigrant status. It may be different now, or at least more difficult.

Q: Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move?

I came with a suitcase. My friend, the long-distance truck driver, brought the remainder of my belongings down here on his truck, the day before our wedding. Without him doing that for me, I would have had to leave everything I owned behind for a very long time.

Q: Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move?

I was ready for change. I wasn’t making it very well up there. What bigger challenge than to go somewhere and have no option to fail?

Q: How long did it take for your new home to feel like home, if that happens at all?

It felt like home as soon as I got off the plane. Over time, the feeling has grown.

Q: Do you miss your home country, and how often do you get back?

No, I don’t miss it. I went back once, after I got my Green Card, and it was such a disappointment, I have no plans to return.

Q: Do you feel like you fit in with the new culture? Do the locals think you fit in?

I think so. It’s all kinds of different down here, but not so different that I can’t blend in.

Q: Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with? … How hard is it getting a bank account, place to live, utilities, etc. with basically no history?

My wife started up all those things before I got here, and my name was added to the accounts. It hasn’t been a problem so far.

Q: Lastly: Are you glad you did it?

Oh, brother! Am I ever! My life has improved a millionfold since I came here. It’s what motivates me not to fail, because I know what the alternative is like.

4

For adventure, sort of. I decided in college that after living in Boston for 22 years, I wanted to go overseas, preferably to Japan, for a few years. So after graduation I started sending out job application letters until I found a place that would sponsor a work visa.

The school I was going to work with had an apartment ready, so all I needed to do was hop on a plane with a couple of suitcases. The place was fully furnished, so I didn’t need to do much shopping until I moved into my own place a year later. I was making a completely fresh start, so there wasn’t much to bring along, and nothing I regretted leaving behind.

It was my own desire to go, rather than a company transfer or moving with my parents, so the mental preparation was probably a lot easier than it could have been. Since I was standing in front of a classroom less than 24 hours after landing, I think I was too jet-lagged to go into culture shock. The school basically threw me into the deep end (for my very first class, the boss drove me out to a factory 50 miles from our school, with no orientation, no training and no textbooks, told me “your class is 90 minutes long, the students will be here in a moment,” and then left me to teach the class and figure out how to get home on my own), so by the time I woke up from the daze I’d pretty much gotten used to how everything worked. Although I’d planned to stay for a couple of years and then return to America, Japan grew on me and by now (12 years later) it feels far more like home than my old hometown does.

I don’t miss my home country, but now that I have a kid, I have an obligation to bring him to see his grandparents on a regular basis. Other than that, I don’t have much of an urge to go back.

I don’t know how much I fit in with the local culture, but I’ve fallen way behind on my old culture. As for how the locals cotton to me, there have been a few threads on just that question. All in all, I get along well with just about everyone.

When I first got here in '95, it wasn’t easy. Getting a savings account and dealing with utilities was simple, but credit cards were impossible, which meant that purchases outside Japan were off-limits. Once I moved to Tokyo and was able to get a Citibank account (with credit card), things became much easier. The biggest hassle now is trying to deal with financial institutions back home that can’t wrap their heads around having an address that doesn’t fit their pre-made forms.

Very.

5

First off: Why did you move? I’d imagine that work or relationships, be they romantic or familial, probably are main reasons. Did anyone go just for the hell of it or for an adventure?

I had lived in Japan previously as a missionary, and I wanted to have an experience working here. I know people who came over just for the hell of it. Some people liked it, some not. Some stayed and others have gone back.

If you’re interested in going, do it. No need to have any special reason.

Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move? Other than my car and furniture, which I can sell or store, I can fit most everything I need into a couple of suitcases. I think. Was there anything that you realized not bringing was a grave oversight?

The world is a lot smaller now and almost anything can get gotten anywhere for a lot less money than it used to cost. I’d go light.

Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move? How long did it take for your new home to feel like home, if that happens at all? Do you miss your home country, and how often do you get back? Do you feel like you fit in with the new culture? Do the locals think you fit in?

I had already lived in Japan before, but it still took a while. There’s a lot more difference in culture between the US and here, than in your case.

I sometimes miss America, but if I moved back then there will be things which I would miss about Japan.

I fit in OK. I’ll never be Japanese, but I get along with people here.

Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with? It looks like the IRS still wants you to file even if you don’t live in the States; how do you handle that? How hard is it getting a bank account, place to live, utilities, etc. with basically no history?

The logistics aren’t that hard. It was more difficult getting a credit card at first, but that’s less of a problem these days.

The IRS isn’t that big of a deal. You can pay someone to file, and generally there will be someone in most countries who specializes in filing US taxes for ex-pats. With the $85k deduction for ex-pats and then credit for foreign taxes, most people don’t owe anything to the US, but just have to file.

Lastly: Are you glad you did it?

Very much.

6

The first move was a bit of a lark. My husband and I were yuppies in Washington DC in the 1980s (a lifestyle we both hated, but we had serious student loans to pay off) when we saw an ad for an economist to the Congress of the Federated States of Micronesia. I wrote an application letter for my husband and I guess it worked. We ended up moving there and I thought it would be a once-in-a-lifetime adventure. But living abroad is addictive. When we returned to the US both my husband and I took steps academically that would help ensure our employability abroad again after he finished his Ph.D. Since then our moves have all been related to my husband’s job, but we made sure he was positioned for that kind of work and I’ve tried to fashion a career as best I can given that I am what they call a “trailing spouse.”

Depending on what country you move to there can be a lot of logistics to contend with. What to bring is the least of your worries. More important are immigration (special visas/permits to live in the country); finding housing (some countries expect a year’s rent in advance); arranging local transport (will you buy a car? need to go through a driver’s license process in a foreign language? need to figure out how a very different local bus system works?), getting your children, if any, in school; establishing a local bank account or figuring how you are going to transfer funds to yourself (fees for international wire transfers/checks can be breath-taking), etc.

If you get a job with an international firm/organization that sends you to a foreign country, you will usually have a lot of help dealing with these issues. If you move completely on your own, you’ll usually find a lot of resources on the web - trying googling “expat [country name]” and chances are you’ll get a lot of good hints.

It is unlikely you need to worry about bringing any particular item, except for the obvious: special medicines/prescriptions, an unusual spice you can’t live without (bacon salt!), lots of shoes if your feet are unusually large/narrow – that sort of thing.

It all depends on what you want from “home.” I once observed that I felt most at home in a foreign country because I often feel like I am outside the cultural mainstream no matter what. If you are in your home country and you feel this way, it can generate guilt or a sense of “what’s wrong with me?” If you are in a foreign country feeling like you aren’t part of the cultural mainstream - no problem! Also, some people have higher threshholds/preferences for the new and unexpected. My idea of hell is knowing exactly what to expect from the world around me. Living in countries very different from my home nation, I don’t have to worry much about that. Things that are – to me – very odd happen all the time. I love it. That’s what I want from “home.”

I don’t miss the US but we go back every summer so that our son will have some roots. “Fitting in” with a culture is a more ambitious goal than you would think. Language and cultural barriers are not to be dismissed lightly. From what I’ve observed, the foreigners most likely to integrate into the local culture fall into two groups:

(1) young, unattached kids in their 20s who like to hang out, drink and dance. They generally find locals their own age with similar interests.

(2) people with a scholarly interest in some aspect of the culture and possibly no choice but to integrate: Western gamelan musicians who become pretty fluent in Indonesian/Javanese and study intensively in Surakarta or Yogya usually become somewhat integrated into Javanese culture. Obviously, anthropologists living in long houses in Borneo with local tribespeople integrate as well.

Standard-issue expats working for multinationals? Not so much. They tend to stick together.

Obviously, a lot of the above has to do with language. I have only lived in countries where the local language was not English. I’m sure there is greater integration in English-speaking countries, but still, from what I have heard, don’t count on having a zillion Aussie or New Zealand or British best friends shortly after a move.

Same as everyone else: you get your forms, you pay your taxes. The US most certainly expects you to pay tax no matter where you live (they are somewhat different from many countries in this regard). However, there are MANY nuances and you must carefully research them. There is a section of the tax code called “Section 911” that allows you to exempt the first ??? (I forget, it has changed - maybe $90k) of income from taxation. However, bear in mind that if you are working for a company that provides lots of benefits (housing, schooling for children, trips back home) this is all considered income. Also, to qualify for the exemption you cannot be in the US for more than something like 30 days a year (check for yourself, don’t listen to me). If you don’t make a lot of money and you definitely stay out of the US for the whole year, it will be easy. If you make a lot of money and travel to US soil, you had better read the tax code yourself and/or get a very good tax consultant.

That’s very country-specific but probably easy. Again, local expat organizations will be able to answer your questions.

But of course. I’ve sat next to world-class Javanese musicians as they played, climbed to see the changing-colored lakes of Keli Mutu in Flores, stood next to the quickly-vanishing glacier at the Grasberg mine in Irian, watched the sunrise over the White Desert, eaten the world’s most incredible dim sum in Hong Kong and Singapore, gone shell-hunting in Pingalap … oh, I could go on for days. And it has all been made possible by living in different countries. I would not have it any other way.

7

I’m a US to CA ex-pat.

Q: First off: Why did you move?

Several reasons. I don’t have much family in the States (only one person I care to speak with) and I’ve a cool aunt and cousin up here. Another reason is political - how the USA has acted in the last 6 or so years. Things I just can’t stand behind. For the point of this thread, I won’t get into it.
Q: Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move?

My wife is a nurse and there is a nursing shortage here. BC is supporting these moves with immigration. Getting paperwork in line, all ducks in a row is still a pain in the ass but the process takes less time then if we were just average Joe.

The move itself was only slightly more stressful then a move to another city (we drove from Portland OR to Vancouver BC). The only difference is we had to inventory EVERYTHING in the truck for customs. There was also a knot in my belly as we approached the border. I had this fear we missed something and would be turned back. That would suck with everything you own in a rental truck along with two dogs, two cats and a parrot and no place to go back to. Our landlord in Portland was really nice and if we called and said we need a few more months I think he would have agreed. It is still an odd place mentally to be at this time in my life.

Right now we’re here on VISA. We’ve filed for permanent residence via the office for our provincial nominee program. Once that is approved (about 6-8 months) we’ll submit the permanent residence with the approval to the government. About a month later we should have permanent residence cards.

Q: Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move?

When the day came to drive away, I was really ready. That week before was really long. Like a kid the night before his birthday. I was a bit concerned my (then 15 year old) daughter would freak out. We talked about the move, she was into it, but when the day came she was sad leaving her friends. This lasted for about 6 months before she really settled in. Her finding a cute Canadian boyfriend helped alot.

Q: How long did it take for your new home to feel like home, if that happens at all?

Vancouver is far more international then any place I’ve lived. But I like that sort of thing so I felt like I fit right in. I sort of do because almost everyone I meet in this town is from someplace else.

Q: Do you miss your home country, and how often do you get back?

Nope. I don’t miss it at all. I’ve been gone one year and 18 days.

I’ve been back to the states a few times but I don’t really have a “home” there given the lack of a family home or anything. There isn’t anything for me in the States anymore.

Q: Do you feel like you fit in with the new culture? Do the locals think you fit in?

Yes. I am the butt of many American jokes though (“Don’t sue me”, “Don’t shoot me”, He’ll eat it/have seconds or “hide the food the American is in the room”, along with medical, big cars and Jesus jokes).

People are more polite up here then most places I’ve visited or lived in the States. People cue here. They form lines at places American don’t - like bus stops. That said, I’ll end up in a store filled with people all from another country where their nature is to push and shove and cut in line. It’s fun.

Q: Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with? … How hard is it getting a bank account, place to live, utilities, etc. with basically no history?

Not many really. The banks work a bit different here then in the States. We had to make an appointment with someone to open the account. I don’t think I had local ID yet, just my US passport and a SIN card (the Canadian version of a Social Security card). The SIN card was pretty easy to get (well, for MOST people). I filled out my form and went into the office. It turns out immigration reversed the month/day of my birthday. I had to go back to the border, have them correct it, and then return to the SI office. After that I got my card.

We wanted to hurry and start building credit. The bank vouched for us and both my wife and I had a VISA card in no time (with a higher limit then my first US credit card). We use Vonage for our telephone. We had a bit of trouble swapping that around from a US based account to a CA based account. I think we had to put up a small deposit on electric service.

We had the place to live before we came up. It wasn’t much harder then finding a home in town thanks to the Internets. It was harder to pick a neighbourhood in a town you hardly know. If you search for it you’ll find my “Vancouver dopers help me find a place to live” thread. This move was the only time I moved into a house without seeing it first. Not even pictures.

We waited to get real mobile phones until about 9 months in country. We used a pre-pay plan until then. When we went to get an account with one company they said our credit wasn’t good enough and they wanted some silly deposit. Funny thing is both my wife and I already got unsecured loans with our banks to buy cars.

We’ve applied for a house loan with the bank. We’ve been pre-approved for three times the amount we were approved in the States on our first house loan 7 years ago. This is using only the credit we’ve build up in the last year. They only catch is the loan won’t happen until we get our permanent residence cards. Can’t say I don’t blame them.

Q: Lastly: Are you glad you did it?

Yes. I wish I did it years ago. I don’t plan on returning to the States to live.

8

My situation: although I’m currently out of Spain, I’m not really an expat. There’s been two times I’ve moved outside of Spain thinking it was “for real,” but funnily enough the answers below generally apply to both temporary and “permanent” expat.

First off: Why did you move?
Work. The first time, unemployment in Spain was an official 24% not counting recent graduates (of any kind of educational level); by going to the US, I was going to get paid enough to live on while getting another degree - no contest. Second time, I was working in a large company-wide project for a US company and they moved me to the US. The temporary moves have all been for specific projects (Costa Rica and Switzerland, so far).

Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move?
As light as possible. The first time, I got on-campus housing and traveled with a backpack. The second time, I had secured an apartment beforehand (during a visit) and traveled with a backpack - I’d left at home three prepackaged boxes with household items which my brother UPS’d me when I arrived; this way I didn’t have to shuffle the boxes around with me and I was sure they wouldn’t arrive before I had the keys to the place. For the current move, I drove up with my poor Yaris a bit overloaded; everything I’ve brought is “loose ends” so I’ll give it to charity or throw it away when I leave.

Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move?
Miami and Philly never quite felt like home, although I was happy and had friends within days of arriving. Costa Rica felt like home after just a few weeks, if I’d had a good offer to stay I would have. Switzerland - I’m leaving next month and can’t wait!
From Miami I went home once a year more or less. From Philly I also managed one trip (I was there for 14 months, although more than 9 were spent out of town). From Costa Rica we were under a no-visa visa (very normal for workers from Spain in Latin America), so we stayed 3 months, went home for a couple of weeks, went back for 3 months. The Swiss situation has just been absurd, I didn’t go home for 6 months but in the last 5 months I’ve been there 4 times.

Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with?
I’m not American. While in the US, since I made money there I filed there. While in CR, since I actually made my money in Spain, I filed in Spain.
Opening bank acounts can be a sort of gymkhana. Every country has different rules. France has been the hardest, but I managed.
Lastly: Are you glad you did it?
Yeah. Miami meant I was able to make my own living while my brothers were in college; it also gave me a work history which many people find terribly impressive and a pretty diploma for my wall. And I got to meet people I’d never thought could exist outside a movie, see places I would never have seen otherwise (the Keys and even gasp Carbondale, Illinois), go to an ACS meeting where I presented a poster (an adventure on its own)…
Philadelphia, that project was the start of my current career. I’m sorry that all us Europeans who’d been in that team got kicked out of the company when it was over (they literally told us “you guys are great but we don’t know what to do with you”); the project itself was great and so was the people in it.
Costa Rica, I wish they were better about the damn air conditioning and that cilantro didn’t make me sick :stuck_out_tongue: Also had great times with great people.
Switzerland… well, the chocolate is good :smiley:

9

Q. First off: Why did you move?

A. Because I could. I left the US more then 5 years ago… Didn’t really care for the way things were going and the company I worked for had just gone under.

Q. Second: From a logistics standpoint, how did you move?

A. I sold most possessions and bought a one way ticket to Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia. I have since moved on to Dubai.

Q. Third: From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move?

A. There are a few stages that you go through. The first 3 months are fun and easy, then 3-6 months you realize the things that are different and annoying, months 6-9 are probably the hardest, and by the end of the first year you are adapted (or you head home). I actually live between here and Europe spending about 8 months here and 4 months in Europe, so it is hard to know where home is.

Fourth: What are the financial headaches you have to deal with?

None really. I pay a guy to file my US taxes and in Dubai there are no taxes. I use my US credit cards, but have a local account here too.

Lastly: Are you glad you did it?

Yup.

10

Sort of for the hell of it. My wife had some relatives in the UK (but her parents were in NZ). I had no connections and had not travelled. We just wanted to see what it was like. Our kids were of an age to actually experience living in a new culture, and we wanted to see things in Europe, and didn’t want to travel 28 hours to get there.

We stuffed our luggage (including 2 guitars) and shipped a couple of tea-chests by sea. We kept a pile of stuff in storage in NZ for a couple of years, then on our first trip back, got in there and gave away or sold virtually everything. We shipped another box. Starting fresh was pretty good, but when (if) we go back to NZ (or maybe Oz) we will take some stuff - our new Oak dining suite is just wonderful. And my wife wants matching wall units before we leave :smack:

We moved and started living with my wifes brother, so we settled in pretty quickly. We also found a church that suited us pretty much immediately. For us, that really helped. Our kids got into that local school from the start, too. But NZers are very like the English - a bit more relaxed, but here in the south people are not too uptight. We miss NZ at times, but we like it here too, it’s just a bit different.

We came with a really good banking history from NZ and with recommendations from existing customers (my wifes parents and brother) we got a bank account and credit card almost immediately. Getting a mortgage after 3 months was a bit trickier, but we have a great broker and we were on our way.

Certainly we have been to great places, seen neat things. Our kids have learnt heaps, and had new experiences - so it was worthwhile. We miss family, but we have been back and had some visits. It’s all good.

Si

11

Ender
OK, most of my comments are focused toward the Middle East. I’ve also lived in the Mediterranean and in Thailand so I have a bit of experience with those as well.
I moved to the Middle East in 1983, mostly because I was stuck in corporate HQ in Huntsville Alabama and REALLY disliked the place. The big reasons are adventure and travel. From here I can be in Europe in about 6 hours or in Asia in about the same amount of time. The third reason, of course, is money. I just saw better opportunities here than in Huntsville. I never got rich or anything but the opportunities ARE better outside the US.

When I moved here I brought three suitcases. I sold everything I owned in the US and started over. I wouldn’t recommend dragging a lot of stuff all over the world. It’s a real PITA and some things can get you into trouble (or at least hassles) with customs. I missed books when I first came here. There was no internet access back then so getting something to read was a challenge.

It feels like home now, but it took a long time (years!) to do so. Arabic is a tough language to learn and the average guy on the street doesn’t speak much English.
The locals here do not think I fit in at all. I’m pale as hell, speak the language poorly, and have the wrong religion. Aside from that, I’m just perfect. S We get along well though. I have quite a few friends that I could call for help at 2 AM and they’d come.
I miss the US but after a while, you feel somewhat disconnected from things that seem very important there. I look through the GD forum a lot and am constantly wondering what people are so upset about. Conversely, the things that interest you are so far outside the experience of those that stayed home that they don’t really understand you anymore. Getting a conversation going with people that never left home can be an uphill battle.
A good example of this would be some of the race threads that go on in GD. I haven’t had to deal with that crap for many years. Of course, race prejudice exists everywhere I’ve ever been but I’ve never been in a country where someone would actually debate it.

Things are different. No credit history is not so important as things here are not so database driven. AFAIK, there isn’t anyplace a prospective landlord could look you up and get information on you. (I like that.) For example, I live in a small (2BR) apartment. The rent was just over $7K/year. I wound up paying for it in cash. The next time, if I stay here, I’ll be able to pay it monthly or quarterly or whatever is mutually agreeable. Buying a car is much the same although here, the company tends to provide you some kind of transport. Opening bank accounts and the like can be a real PITA. The banks here are NOT customer oriented and are incredibly arrogant.

Yes, I’m VERY glad I did it. I’ve had and am still having, a great time traveling, meeting people, and trying new things. If you are the type that likes a very steady, organized life then being an expat might not suit you. OTOH, if you like adventure and travel, it’s excellent. I’ve got a million stories of funny things that have happened to me over the years. Most funny, some tragic, and the bulk of them just odd.
As far as advice, I’d need some idea of where you plan on going before I could say anything sensible. After all, if you were moving to Cyprus I’d say something different than what I would if you were moving to Saudi or Thailand.

One piece of universal advice I can give is; don’t bitch about the place not being like home. It pisses the locals off as well as your fellow expats. This is incredibly common. We get Americans complaining about their “rights” that they don’t have here or Europeans complaining about working hours as if they were in a labor union of some sort. The locals can’t figure out what they’re talking about and the more experienced expats just think the guy is an idiot.

Best regards and best of luck.

Testy

12

On a whim and a prayer: went to Japan for three months to try to pay off student debt. I didn’t come home for thirteen years. (Ended up in Hong Kong, then the US, then Ireland.)

One rucksack full of stuff and a small suitcase. Travelling away made me realise how much I really don’t need. A camera and a radio would have been good. These days I travel with a laptop too.

Though I was horrible homesick at first, I got over it within about a month. It took me about a year to feel ‘at home’ in Hong Kong. I loved learning the cultural ropes and the language - every day contained a new revelation - and though I never fitted in totally, I seemed to get a lot closer to the locals than most expatriates. When I left, I realised I’d made a huge error, and tried to go back, but didn’t have enough money to do so. I miss it still. I never really felt completely at home in the US or Ireland - the differences were too subtle, I guess, which is more unnerving.

You do need a lot of money to set yourself up unless you have a job to go to - but there are still rental deposits to pay, and domestic necessities to buy, etc. I’ve always found that you really need to spend time in a place to learn the true cost of living - there are few statistics that can genuinely show you how much it costs to get by; generally I’ve found that the salary in the foreign currency that you thought was good, turns out to be less so when you actually have to spend it. Credit is an issue as few credit histories are transferrable between countries - even returning to the UK I had become a credit non-person, and had to wait more than a year even to get a credit card. The IRS dealie is mean; not being American I never had to deal with that.

Oh my goodness yes. I have never regretted it, never, not for one single second. Even when I was away and things were going badly. It allowed me to view my culture from outside; it also allowed me to see things I couldn’t have imagined (and meet lots of beautiful women along the way). It even helped me get a career by osmosis rather than planning.

I know if I’d have stayed at home and invested properly in a pension, and bought a house when the market was low, and saved properly, I would be a hell of a lot richer than I am now. But I wouldn’t be me, and I wouldn’t have had all the experiences I have. If I had my time again, I would still do it again, only earlier, and moreso. It was the best thing I’ve ever done, and even now I want to do it again sometime. It changed my perspective on the world, and changed me as a person. I get evangelical about it, which is wrong of me, but it’s one of those things that I think everyone should try at least once if they have the chance.

13

I’m back in the States now, but I moved to Australia (Central Coast…north of Sydney) with my Australian husband to be closer to his family. We had intended to stay forever, but we didn’t.

We sold nearly everything we had, brought two big duffle bags, and shipped some boxes (to a friend’s house). We had a baby, so we were travelling a bit heavier than we would have been without. Nothing in particular that we regretted not bringing, but there are a few things we’re sorry we sold.

It took me about six months before I started feeling at home…knowing my way around, knowing local terms for things, knowing where to buy stuff, etc. I mostly missed my family. We did not come back in the nearly four years we were there, but my parents came to visit once. The homesickness for me was exacerbated by having a small child and having another baby while we were there, so that probably won’t be a factor for you. Fitting into the culture was helped for me because we went back to my husband’s hometown. We hung out with his friends, who mostly were married to foreign wives.

This was probably the hardest issue, even with a citizen husband. He’d been out of the country for over a decade (and had left right out of uni), so we had no established credit. We had to have a lot of cash. We came with something like $10,000 in cash and we still struggled mightily…bonds for a rental unit, bonds for utilities, car (had to pay cash for that), computer, furniture, etc. Also, look into what you’ll have to do for healthcare. I was able to enrol in the Medicare system (their national health plan) because I’m married to a citizen. See what kind of health insurance you’ll need.

My husband and I are very glad we did it for emotional reasons. He needed to go back and see that it wasn’t the utopia he’d built up in his mind. He needed to be close to his dad, who was very ill when we moved (and died while we were there). It helped me understand my husband better and it gave us something in common. I’m also glad I got to be close to people he’s close to. Financially, it has really put us behind the eightball. Most of our friends have had years of home ownership and building up their lives and we’re starting back at the beginning. That’s okay, though…it’s only stuff, and we’ll get there eventually. I guess that’s really our only regret…that we didn’t keep our house here and rent it out instead of selling it. But, like I said, we had intended on staying forever.

14

Adding to what Testy said, I think it is easy to end up in a situation where your home country starts to feel foreign. I was back in the US for an extended time this year as a close family member had passed away and only just before I left did it start to feel normal again.

In general (I hate to stereotype) Americans are pretty sheltered and it is difficult to have meaningful conversations about life in general. In the past 5 years, I have:

Lived in the Republic of Georgia over a winter (very little electricity)
Spent 7 months traveling around the Indian Ocean
Spent extended time (months) livng in Central Europe, New Zealand, Thailand
Lived here in the UAE for several years.

When I was back in the US, I was not familiar with the current TV programs or commercials etc so for many I was out of touch (This is probably a good thing!).

It is true that you need some attachments for home every now and then… when we were in Tbilisi someone managed to gather the ingredients to make chocolate chip cookies. For you in the developed world, this may seem trivial - just pop down to the 24 hour super market and buy them, but in most of the world it is not like this.

Like C3’s US/UK experience, I found living in NZ a bit weirder that other places I have lived. It was English speaking of course and the culture was very close to the US compared to most, but the differences were subtle. Adapting to Dubai was much easier because you expect everything to be different (except for the Starbucks on every corner). :slight_smile:

15

I’ve noticed that many cultures have some specific songs which manage to turn any of its expats into mumbling, nose-blowing rags when they come up.

One of Spain’s songs is “Vino Español” (Spanish wine), about having Christmas dinner with Spanish wine in Chicago sometime during prohibition… that song has been known to tear up people who wouldn’t give half a cent for Spain on any day of the week. A classmate of mine in Miami would be saying “b-b-but I’m an independentist! Why am I crying?” in between two handfuls of Kleenex.

The Cooking Club at the University of Miami was open to anybody, but every semester it only got Hispanics. The critiques of potato omelettes and twenty-five versions of tacos or enchiladas often ended up being accompanied by songs that we wouldn’t even listen to if we were home.

I’m currently very homesick (not so much homesick as not happy where I am) and have been listening to copla, boleros and other traditional Spanish music, which at home I wouldn’t listen to except by accident.

/semihijack

16

Why did you move? To see if Mexico should really be my region of expertise (most geographers pick one). First few months felt like it was pretty much “for the hell of it”.

From a logistics standpoint, how did you move? I maintained a base in the U.S. (okay, fine, my mother’s house! so sue me!), so I could gradually move stuff down as I realized I’d be there longer. Transportation was a gradual stepping up, too – relied on public transportation for first few months, then bought a cheap used car down there, then after two years bough a nice car down there (which I sold three years later when my ex-pat life drew to a close).

From a mental and social standpoint, how did you move? Having traveled plenty over the years, I was mentally prepared to jump into a new place without much fear. That turned out to be easy. BUT – WARNING!! – that hard part turned out to be coming back to the U.S. after several years down there! It’s taken me three years to disentangle and clarify my professional and personal links that I had established down there. I desperately wish I could have foreseen how problematic that would be.

What are the financial headaches you have to deal with? Any tax accountant should be able to answer the tax questions. As for having $$ down there, believe it or not I never opened a bank account in Mexico! It’s just so darned easy to use ATM’s (which are worldwide now) while maintaining your U.S. account, as long as you visit the U.S. at least twice a year to catch up on certain things. Your situation may require having a foreign bank account, but it’s probably not hard to do. They might want proof of residence (in the sense of living in a place, not in the stricter immigration status sense), so you might want to put off setting up an account until after you’ve moved in.

Are you glad you did it? ABSOLUTELY. Life is too short, and this planet too varied, to spend all your time in one culture – and vacation travel isn’t enough, you really HAVE to stay somewhere long enough that you feel a part of it. Such an experience would be valuable at any age – child, twenty-something, older person, doesn’t matter.

17

I went to Panama as a young lieutenant and fell in love with and in the tropics. I never really felt out of place. Now I am in Saudi Arabia for the money.

Some people just don’t mind living overseas. I am one of them.

18

Relationship. I was living in Vancouver BC when I met a woman from Washington DC. After moving to Ontario, we visited a bunch of times until I proposed. At the time, INS documents were easier to fill out than Canadian; I was allowed to work under an American fiance visa; and American student loans paid off in Canadian funds would have been prohibitively expensive.

I drove, since it’s overland the whole way, so I brought my car (mistake) and furniture. I miss a lot of my books and stuff I’d stored at my parents’ place, but at the same time, it’d probably still be at my parents’ place regardless, so it’s a moot point.

My new country still does not feel like home. I have found that I was never as patriotic as I have been since I moved South. I love a lot of the people here, and a lot of the stuff I can get here. But it’s still not right for me. I’ve been here 7 years. I manage to get back up North about 1-2 times a year.

Can’t speak for the IRS, but I still owed some CDN taxes when I moved down. I had no problems; I forwarded them my new address and they sent my statements there. Biggest problem was credit. Out of the 3 credit bureaus, only one (Equifax) recognized my Canadian credit history. To anyone else, I was a brand new consumer. I was lucky in that my fiancee (now wife) and in-laws had an existing credit history that I could fall back on. Bank account, however, was easy.

Natch! I’ve found a lovely wife, a great job, and great friends. I’d do the same in an instant (and this time, I’d know what mistakes I made the first time…).

19

Future expat here, hopefully. I have a question.

Is it impossible to move overseas with pets? I’ve been wanting to live abroad ever since I was a teenager, but now I have two cats that I simply wouldn’t be able to give up. How difficult are the logistics of relocating pets overseas? How hard is it on the animals themselves?

Thanks.

20

It is entirely dependent on which country you’re moving from, and which country you’re moving to. E.g. we don’t have rabies over here, so if you brought your animal/s in from the US, we’d impound them at the airport for 3 (or is it 6) months, to guarantee they don’t start frothing at the mouth.

A friend of mine moved from Hong Kong to Singapore with two cats, and they were in quarantine for six months. He visited them every day, bless.