Extending the olive branch (on Partisanship)

I am putting this in the Pit because the cynical side of my nature is convinced that it won’t be long before someone comes along and says something that will insure that this is where the thread belongs. Never the less, I would be happy beyond words if a Mod found in necessary to move it to MPSIMS.

I want to talk about our politics, and the reason that we are all here (at the SDMB). Things are bad right now. Really bad. We are about as evenly divided as a nation as you can get. I have been around the SDMB for a little while now, and I have never seen us at each other’s throats as much as we are now (although I am sure that some old-timer may well prove me wrong).

What I would like is to see folks from both sides of the debate be big enough to fess up to a few things (I will start in a moment). First, I would like the recognition that both of us want what is best for this country. I would like to see folks admit that both sides have valid points to make, and that the process in an ongoing one in which neither side is 100% right or wrong. We have a long way to go before Election Day, and no matter who wins about half of us are going to be deeply unhappy. Rather than sniping at each other, we should be supporting each other. We should try to be gracious winners, and to not be sore losers.

As promised: First, I am pretty much a Liberal. That said, I will say that my Conservative brethren have valid points when it comes to their views on self-reliance and small government. Further, there are posters here who I know to be conservative who, none the less, write things that I enjoy reading and who have enriched my life by doing so and have given me a lot to think about. I am sure that with a little thought I could think of more, but I want to get the ball rolling.

Anyway thanks, as always, for listening.

Hell, I’ll throw in for that. Speaking as a civil libertarian and economic conservative, I often find myself the sole defender of any given stance that’s being debated (IRL, not here, of course). However, I do respect the point of view of the social conservative, and even moreso the economic liberal. I understand the belief and conviction that pragmatism and realisitc concerns, rather than what may seem a pie-in-the-sky ideology, should be the driving force behind government.

I wish I could say that most of the conservatives (you are what your social stance is, at least by my terms) I meet on a daily basis were as well-spoken and insightful as the ones I encounter on the SDMB. I wish their views, by and large, were as well-thought-out and coherent as those expressed by my political “enemies” here. But more than I wish that those things were true of the average conservative, I wish they were true of the average liberal. I think what this world really needs are more people who take the time to think their views over, to consider the opinions of others, and to form a cogent set of beliefs based on what they think is right. That’s what first attracted me to this board…though the standard left-vs-right mudslinging does occur on occasion, more often than not there’s a coherent and interesting discussion lurking behind the vitriol – even here in the Pit.

Binarydrone is right. From Shodan to Lib, from Brutus to Left Hand of Dorkness, from the late december to the inimitable Reeder, even aaaall the way from milroyj to the illustrious elucidator (sorry 'luci, I was running out of conservatives)…most everyone here is just operating from what they believe is right. I think we all understand that, but the OP has the right idea – a public acknowledgement from all involved that the other side isn’t completely full of shit :wink: might do us all some good.

–Ian

Repeat after me:

John Kerry as president will not destroy the country. John Kerry as president will not destroy the country. John Kerry as president will not destroy the country.

I may disagree with some of his politics, and I recognize that a lot of his “questionable” political maneuvering is a necessity for people in his position, and I think he’s riding too hard on promises to simply be “better” than Bush, but jeez… the way some people talk, you’d start to think that the country will immediately evaporate the instant he’s sworn into office.

Now, to flip sides:

You don’t like Bush. I understand that. I understand that you think his politics are questionable, his religion controls his behavior to an unacceptable degree, and that he’s dragged us into a useless war.

However, that does not mean that he’s deliberately going out of his way to ruin the country. That does not mean he’s jerking off in the Oval Office at the thought of Americans being out of jobs or Iraqis getting killed in the last skirmish. That does not mean he’s an evil, twisted monster.

I understand that some people get very emotional about this issue, and I understand why. However, I also recognize that it’s very, very easy to be manipulated when you’re seething with righteous indignation. I understand that it’s easy to defeat an opponent politically when you cast him as a monster. Unfortunately, these sort of politics only breed more of the same… if you try to oust Bush with the same tactics that got him in, shit, you’re not fixing anything… you’re just laying down more pavework for a TRUE monster to manipulate your feelings, my feelings, whoever, to get into office.

There’s a certain hierarchy of problems, and the antics of Dubya or the lameness of Kerry is attributable to a single thing: People in America like their politics simple. Any argument that can’t be expressed in five seconds and replayed over and over on Fox or CNN is dismissed or ignored. It’s not simply enough to DISAGREE with someone, or to say that they made a mistake… you have to say that you HATE them, that they LIED and MANIPULATED. We’re trained to see our opponents’ actions in the worst possible light, and see “our guy’s” in the best.

Me? I simply start with the assumption that any of these significant political figures have the best of intentions in mind, that they believe their actions are good for America. Once you start with that assumption - rather than believing they want nothing but to destroy all you hold dear - you stop becoming dubious and suspicious of The Other Guy, and you stop being naive and blindly led by Your Own Guy.

I think a lot of people just automatically see their opponents in black & white, but give a lot more leeway to their own side.

Oh well. There’s my stupid thoughts on the issue. Whatta I know, anyway? I’m just a stupid Republican. :smiley:

That went a lot longer than I thought it would.

Oh well. Take it as the ramblings of a bored, beheadached chump, and move on…

This place would be a bore if it weren’t for the well reasoned give and take that goes on. Some times it’s fun to watch the wingers flap their wings too.

But I have been enlightened more than once here. Nothing earth shattering that is going to get me to kiss Ashcroft or Cheney. But enough to make me take a second look at my positions and never settle without questioning.

I hope I’ve done the same for the other side.

I’ve decided the best thing to do is avoid partisan threads. Sometimes if the title intrigues me enough or if I detect a chance to snipe and run I’ll open one, but I’ve had a lot more fun on the SDMB since I stopped trying to be serious about reading and posting in the political threads.

I had reached the point where I felt I could determine how many joints alricthegoth had smoked before he started posting, and that was a warning sign that things were getting Out Of Control.

Although I admire your goal, I don’t think a sustained period of niceness is going to come to pass here when politics are the subject of discussion.

Well, naturally, one is a bit taken aback to be lumped in with such sundry and tawdry, but the “illustrious” part takes a lot of the sting out. And one cannot dispute your other modifiers: december is “late”, Reeder “inimitiable”, and milroyj is “waaaaaay”. Justice was fairly rendered.

As to the thread:

“Forgive your enemies, but wait until they are safely hanged.”

  • Heinrich Heine

I think the end of partisanship is in sight.
See, I’m sure that when John Kerry is President, all the people who demanded we must never question or attack the President (that’s hateful!) will all stop hatefully criticizing Kerry, and the world will be as one. I’m telling you, all will be well!

I really just want to praise everyone who has posted to this thread for being so cool and grown-up.

Great idea for a thread, Binary. I seriously feel all warm and fuzzy. :slight_smile:

It’s nice to see a moderate, polite political thread that doesn’t have anyone screaming, name calling, or making yet another Godwinism.

I feel a group hug coming on. I’m outa here.

Pfft. Sounds like something Hitler would have said.

Thank you, Binarydrone! I stay out of political debates because I get tired of how rancorous they get. I’m very much middle of the road politically (-0.88, -3.33 on the Political Compass), and I get tired of both sides in an election trying to prove the opposition’s the Antichrist. From local politics on up, if both sides try to depict the other as doing unspeakable damage, is it any wonder people give up and don’t vote?

I’ve been reading a book on American presidential campaigns through the years. I realize this one isn’t even close to some we’ve had, and I find that vaguely comforting. Still, as I once gently told a former client, just because I don’t support the Republican party, that doesn’t mean I’m an idiot who’s incapable of logical thought (it’d better not have – I was upgrading some software for them! :eek: ). I’ve lived in a state run by a Democratic party machine, and know firsthand what problems it has; my home city has been run nicely into the ground by Democrats who may be pro-business but don’t have a clue how to go about it. I’m religious, but not right. I’m a bleeding heart, but not a fool. That’s why, once again, the Libertarians are getting my vote this November because I’m tired of the antics of both major parties and the fringe elements of those who follow them. (Yes, I know about the fringe Libertarians – one of them’s actually a friend of mine.)

CJ

I wasn’t going to post in this thread because I’ve lost my patience and I just want to smack that olive branch right into the faces of right-wingers, but I just had to say, that was great!

Dear God but you are an insular and insensitive drone. We are not all all here for the same reason and our politics are not confined to the pitiable and temporary rubbish that concerns you so deeply right this minute.

Open your fucking eyes and recognise that, no matter who wins the presidential election in the US, you must repair damage inflicted on international relations with a multitude of other nations. You must embrace the diversity of opinion and extremes of emotion in your own country in order to reach some understanding of even more diversity and extremes in the wider world. You, Binarydrone, with the limits you pose in your own OP and the restriction of discussions to the we and the our of your questions are part of the very problem of restriction to a single-focus paradigm that will never allow success. You, mate, (and your ilk) are the problem.

Well, so much for olives. Who’s up for a nice bottle of whine?

True - in most instances. Not in all.

Agree 100%.

Very true, we should. We won’t, particularly if Bush wins.

I understand your sentiments, and I applaud you for them. But it didn’t happen in 2000, and it isn’t going to happen in 2004.

Regards,
Shodan

But Binarydrone! If any of the partisan fanatics around here were ever to concede a single point to their opponents, they would be as much as admitting that their chosen ideology may not be the only true and correct one! That would cause the heavens to fall and their little world to crack asunder!

Sorry, man, but some of the people you are dealing with here are a) blind, unhearing zealots witnessing for a political viewpoint every bit as dogmatic, and as illogical, as any religion; b) complete nobodies IRL who like thinking that they are sage political pundits on this board, even if what they really happen to be are out-of-work taxi drivers posting their screeds from a public library c) single-minded, close-minded, blithering idiots.

As someone once said, the people wish to be deceived, so let them be deceived.

Aw man, I just knew some fuckers would come in here and screw this up.

I’d hoped I was just being cynical. :frowning:

runs off to look for a longer olive branch

To be honest, I am surprised that it took as long as it did.

Re: ** Sisyphus’ Stone**. Is this some odd whoosh? In my OP I suggest that both sides of the political debate adopt a wider (ie, more diverse) point of view and this leads you to say

Am I not doing (and suggesting that other do) the very thing that you are berating me for not doing? What is your problem anyway? You did read the OP, right?