Partisan, biased people who don't see their own stupidity

The BBQ Pit
1

Obama gave his speech tonight, and of course, the Facebook status updates are all atwitter (hah!) with support and derision.

A number of my friends do not share my political views, which is fine. In fact, I’m willing to bet that most of my friends do not share my political views.

However, the following recently flowed across my screen:

Person 1: sounds like his campaign alright - making promises he can’t deliver on. Common Sense?!!! you gotta be kidding me! That doesn’t exist in DC.

Person 2: not on his side anyway.

I actually have only a minor quibble with person #1; s/he is pointing to a politician and yelling, “liar, liar,” and implying that it’s somehow a reason to dislike Democrats; that they lie and Republicans don’t. Typical example of partisan non-thinking bs.
My real beef is with person #2. Person #1 sort of implied his/her bias without saying something provably false. It may be that Obama made promises he can’t deliver on (for certain values of promise and certain values of deliver). Person #2 flat-out says that all Democrats don’t have common sense!

This may seem like a minor thing to pit, and I know we have people here who have said as much about Democrats, and who have said as much about Republicans. But, this place always feels a little isolated, and while some of you are friends or acquaintances of mine IRL, debate and argument on the SDMB always carries an air of abstraction with it.

What kind of asshole walks around in the real world thinking all Democrats lack common sense? Am I surrounded by people whose assessment of the value of my views is dictated solely by my political affiliation? If it’s Democratic it must be stupid! If a Republican idea it’s a load of crap!

There is so much power and money to be had by the few in political power, that they have shaped political discourse and the public in general into binary-thinking, one-sided and unapologetic cheerleaders for the two political parties, and it makes me sick.

ETA: I know there have been pits in the past about political/religious comments on facebook. This is not a complaint about that, but about the content of political argument/support in general.

2

And furthermore holding out the possibility that the GOP does. It’s one thing to say all politicians have no common sense or undelivered promises but person #2’s commment makes me make a cliche out of Barney Frank’s quip when I wonder on what planet they spend most of their time.

3

What don’t you understand about it? It’s just narrow mindedness. If I believe that holding a particular position on something is self evident, then if you disagree with me, you must be foolish.

I mean, even though the person is saying Democrats don’t have common sense, they probably don’t really believe that. They’d probably say that somebody like Zell Miller had common sense, or Joe Lieberman has common sense on some things.

4

So – you’ve seen the same behavior here, but it’s OK, because this place is “abstract.”

But on Facebook, it’s egregious enough to be Pittable.

5

I expect the partisan horseshit here. I come here, I know I’m going to read it.

On Facebook, it’s more jarring when someone just blurts out some sort of partisan stupidity. The stupid is also more apparent on Facebook.

6

Maybe it’s because it’s out of context, but Person 1’s comments seem to show more of a anti-politician bias than any particular party favoritism.

7

It sure does seem like people need to be loud about their political beliefs nowadays, especially conservative ones.

I have almost no interest in debating anything political with anyone IRL. After a decade of reading GD, where the discussion level is fairly high (I mean, compare it to the average guy at the bar talking about how Obama is going to ruin everything! EVERYTHING WE HOLD DEAR), and so hearing the half-baked political opinions of random dumbasses is not only uninteresting, but aggravating. And they always expect agreement - and if you disagree you’re part of Obama’s secret socialist squad)

But holy shit, you can’t escape them. Most of the people who lean Republican at all make it part of their daily (or hourly or minutely) routine to bring up politics. Usually uninformed, half-ass hateful stuff like the stuff in the OP - usually worse. This existed to a degree under Bush (and usually for much better reasons) but it’s really cranked up. The average conservative seems to be just waiting to be told what the latest Unspeakable Outrage is, and they’re always dialed up to 11. They’re almost hysterically worked up into a panic at all times - OMG THE WORLD IS GOING TO COLLAPSE IF OBAMA DOES ONE MORE THING!!!111

They are only serving to drive me away from even possibly considering that I may have anything at all in common with the “conservative base” of the Republican party, even though a lot of my philosophy on government matches up to their lip service (not the theocrat stuff - the limited government stuff)… which of course isn’t what they abide by anyway when actually given power.

8

I don’t see why you object to that. Obama most assuredly has not kept his campaign promises. And given what has been happening in Washington for decades, one can argue that a lobotomy is required before being seated in Congress.

9

I thought the lobotomy was required to run.

Anyway, while I can understand Democrats grumbling about Obama not keeping his campaign promises, why the hell are conservatives grumbling about it? Every promise he’s failed to keep is one that conservatives don’t care about or actively dislike, and the only one he’s making good on is healthcare reform, which has been watered down to the point where it’s an inperceptible change from status quo.

10

I am so weary of this. You can’t be anywhere anymore without people making loud comments along these lines. One of the guys in our building brought the mail in the other day and someone else made a derogatory comment about the U.S.P.S. Mail-bringing guy says “Those are the people that’ll be in charge of your healthcare !!”. I don’t like it any more if it’s something I agree with. Keep it to yourself, buddy.

11

Hey, look! Partisan, biased people who don’t see their own stupidity!

12

I get what Eonwe is saying.

If you’re on the SDMB, some political debate is to be expected; it’s always been a part of things. If you go to the Pit, or GD, or even IMHO, you’re going to see some political threads.

On Facebook, though. . .it’s like walking into a thread in CS and seeing a gratuitous swipe at Obama or Bush. You may or may not agree with it, but it wasn’t what you signed up for, and it’s kind of annoying. Just because I want to keep in touch with my friend from HS/old gaming buddy/whatever doesn’t mean I want to know their politics. If I did, I would ask.

13

Actually, dumbshit, I’m not, nor have I ever been a democrat. I’ve voted for more Republicans than democrats. My ideology leans mostly libertarian.

Your assumption here is of a false balance - that both sides must be equal and therefore whoever is bitching about one side is just blindly being partisan and doesn’t recognize their own side is just as bad. This is fallacious thinking. It’s utterly clear that right wingers are far more vocal about their politics, especially lately.

You seem to think that if anyone makes a judgement of any other political group, under any circumstances, regardless of the evidence for it, that it’s purely partisan sniping. This is stupid. It may commonly be an accurate description, but if this is your way of rationalizing this, then there’s no possibility in your world that one side may be legitimately guilty of something.

14

Yeah, that’s about it. It’s jarring, to say the least. And, sure, you can ignore people on Facebook just like you can here, but the block system is a little different, as the SDMB equivalent would be to lose all the threads that anyone on your ignore list started.

I suppose it wouldn’t be a problem in less-adversarial political times, and maybe in less-adversarial places. Here and now, though, where politics is more like a college football game with even more at stake, I sometimes feel like a Penn State fan who somehow wandered into the Alabama-Auburn game. Facebook is a regrettable extension of that.

15

Last night having dinner with a friend, out of the blue I’m hit with “Do you really think Obama deserved the Nobel prize?” I responded with “Well, even Obama himself didn’t think he deserved it. It wasn’t up to him.”

Her response was “Well, do you think he deserved it? I think it cheapens the whole idea of the Nobel Prize. It demeans the whole thing.”

This sounded suspiciously like a talking point to me so I asked her point blank, “So the Nobel Prize is important to you, is it? Can you name any other winner and why they won?” I called her out on it: she wasn’t defending the sanctity of anything, she was trying to discredit Obama’s image as a leader under the guise of a informed and rational argument. Had she actually made an argument against a specific policy or action it would have been different. But her goal wasn’t to change my mind about anything by talking about facts, it was just to parrot some rhetoric she heard before and she got annoyed when I pinned her down.

I guess that’s my real bitterness - people don’t even bother to learn about what they are attacking or defending. They have an emotional response for or against something, and just want other people to agree with them.

16

My son had his 6 year old birthday party last weekend. One of the fathers of a party guest is a reporter for our local paper. When one of the mothers of another kid learned this, she spent the rest of the party complaining to him about how local Republicans are ruining the state, the education system, the streets, and the entire city. Then she kept asking, “Have I convinced you to write an article about this yet? People need to be educated about the damage these Republicans do!”

The poor reporter was trying to listen politely but escape from her rantings. I tried to rescue him a few times, “Hey Tim, please come help me set up the pinata.” But this woman followed him around demanding that he write a story about how evil Republicans are.

Obnoxious comes in all political flavors.

17

IMHO, it was your responsibility not to rescue him but to ask the woman to stop badgering him.

18

Maybe your quote of them is taken severely out of context but nowhere in reading that do I see any way of getting “they lie and Republicans don’t.” I can see the lying politician thoughts, though. Unless there was way more to the quote or they went on to say, “I wouldn’t trust a Dem any further than I could throw them,” then I would agree with you. Otherwise, I believe that you are reading way too much into a simple opinion.

As for the rhetoric and pig-headedness on both sides, there is nothing that can be done. I’ve seen too many times where one side will make a statement about an issue and be immiediately met with a response about how stupid all Democrats/Republicans/liberals/conservatives/pro-lifers/pro-choicers/etc. are. You think that the government wasted money by bailing out GM? Obviously you are just another right-wing asshole who gets his talking points from Rush. You think that we should never have gone into Iraq? You’re just another pussy liberal who doesn’t know how to stand up against the evil in the world. It goes on and on.

When it comes to politics on message boards, there is no such thing as polite discourse. The extremes on each side of the political spectrum have their heads so firmly entrenched up their asses that there is no reasoning with them. Ultraconservatives and ultra liberals will never see any other views but their own. As people move towards the center they are more willing to at least listen to other views before shouting them down.

The problem comes when a person has mixed stands. I’m a fiscal and defense conservative but believe in gay rights. I am pro-life but believe abortion is a valid option in specific situations. I believe in a separation of church and state but not to the point of absurdity (Is a Christmas tree really that offensive?) . Sure, I watch Fox but I also watch CNN and listen to NPR occasionally (used to listen to Air America once in a while).

But as soon as I make a comment that is from a more conservative view I’m immediately labeled as a Neanderthal Nazi happily waterboarding illegal aliens while raping the environment, pausing only long enough to drive my Hummer to the abortion clinic where I’ll shoot an abortion doctor with my assault rifle embossed with bible verses, then celebrate by lighting a cigar with the bailout money I got from being a Wall Street fatcat.

19

Speaking personally, I would call anyone who holds the beliefs you do a gay-friendly conservative.

20

Angel of the Lord pinned down the difference. It’s not that it’s OK here, but at least is moderately on-topic.

And, like I said, I don’t really “know” most of you. My experience with 99% of the people here is confined solely to reading posts on the SDMB. My experience with 99% of my friends on facebook is one of personal, real-life interaction. We’re friends and/or colleagues for the most part. When a friend of mine spouts stuff that’s stupid I’m a lot less sure how to handle it. If s/he said something like that to me in person I’d consider it pretty rude, if they didn’t know I agreed with them already.

It’s not my intent at all to get into a political debate about the content of the post, but I’ll say that I qualified my OP by conceding that the not keeping promises part is certainly up for debate, but the implication that it was indicative of Obama/Democrats specifically was the problem. I’m all for debate and/or facts about campaign promises, but where I take issue is when that debate is used in a ham-handed way to slam a specific party, in a gotcha sort of way, as if it were just one more piece of evidence that the other party is saintly and good, and it just goes to show how all of the opposition are evil.

Take Mr. Obama to task, but don’t conflate his perceived failings as an individual with failings in policy.