EXTREMELY Frustrating Car Trouble

1998 Saturn SL2, 107K miles

Over the weekend, it wouldn’t start. It would crank, but not turn over. I put a new battery in it; didn’t make a lick of difference.

I took it to a mechanic. He called me after a couple of hours and said it was flooded, and that the spark plugs had gone bad. He dealt with the flooding in whatever way one does that, and he replaced the spark plugs. I picked it up last night, and it started just fine.

This morning, same problem as before: It’s cranking, but not turning over.

Note - the mechanic told me that, when he pulled the spark plugs out, they were soaked, saying that gas was flooding the chambers.

Any ideas?

“Crank” can mean the same thing as “turn over” - the starter runs and rotates the crankshaft. You’re saying that this happens, but the engine refuses to run?

If the starter will crank the engine, it’s a good indication the battery is okay.
Beyond that, I don’t have much. Could be a fuel delivery issue (flooding) or an ignition issue (no ignition leading to flooding). I’d look at ignition first.

It’s going “rrrr-rrrr-rrr,” “rrr-rrr-rrr,” like it’s trying to start, but it’s not actually starting.

Did he run any diagnostics? It sounds like an ignition problem for sure. Has it rained or been very damp recently where you are at?

Most likely it’s flooded again. Try starting it with the accelerator pedal held all the way down - this engages “clear flood” mode which shuts off the injectors while cranking. Assuming it is flooding, it will take some testing to find the cause, as there are several possibilities.

Word to the wise: “It would crank, but not [start]. I put a new battery in it; didn’t make a lick of difference.” If it’s cranking normally, it’s almost never a battery problem. No surprise that a new battery didn’t fix it.

Fighting ignorance: “Turn over” means crank. It was turning over (cranking), but not starting.

If I had to take one shot in the dark, I would say the Engine coolant temp sensor is bad, or the wiring to it is bad. If this circuit goes open, the computer will assume that the engine is at -40 and DUMP fuel into the cylinders.
Go with what Gary T suggests to see if you can get it to start. Then it is time for some good basic diagnostics.

Put an timing light on a spark plug and see if it fires when you are cranking.
Could be an ignition module, or bad coil.

??
Why not just remove the plug, plug it in, and hold it against the engine block to see if there is a spark? A timing light on a sparkplug?

I thought that’s where timing lights attached? Then you could see that there is spark by the light flashing rather than risk an actual open spark.

Because:

  1. Doing this can damage modern ignition systems.
  2. It’s hard to do by yourself.

I guess I should have said “sparkplug wire.” Just my shorthand.

Tried that - still nothin’. And yes, it’s been EXTREMELY damp and rainy here for the past week.

It’s back at the mechanic’s again. I’ll let you guys know. Thanks for all the help!

Old ignition systems don’t like dampness. Wires, caps, rotors and bears, oh my.

A full tune up might be in order, and some healthy doses of Wd-40 to rid the electrical parts of any moisture should see you on your way for the time being.

Sounds like your basic old school wet ignition issues. She’ll crank till the battery dies, but the ignition system is vulnerable to the wet as it ages at won’t fire the engine.

This is most noticable when it’d damp enough long enough for the moisture to settle in and get to work. I’d bet my SDMB membership on it.

A 1998 car isn’t really old school with regards to ignition systems. I think ( and I do repeat the word think) that this model car has is a coil on plug design which has not distributor cap, rotor or plug wires.
Gary T can better fill us in on that.

Is this “clear flood” mode universal or just something GM does?

Many different makers have a “clear flood” mode, but Rick has advised me in another thread that not all do. I do not know offhand which do and which don’t.

This car has distributorless ignition. It has an ignition module and an ignition coil, which are separable but coupled together. The coil has four output terminals, each one connected to its spark plug with a spark plug wire.

Plug wires tend to get moisture-sensitive when old, and could be the problem here. Often, but not always, plug wires that are bad enough to cause a no-start would also cause poor running. Even if it were running well after getting new plugs (and the wires possibly drying out), if it’s been damp and the wires are old, a thorough approach would have included checking the wires for sensitivity to moisture. Coils and modules can also be weather-sensitive, but it’s less common.

10 year old wires? Damp weather. Car cranks like the Dickens but doesn’t start? Plugs were replaced? If someone doesn’t squirt that sucker with WD-40 a disservice is being done.

I bought new ones last summer.