A discussion about the comic book series Fables by Bill Willingham. For those who aren’t familiar with it, the basic premise is that various folklore characters like Snow White, the Big Bad Wolf, and Prince Charming are actual people living in New York City. While I recommend the series, if you aren’t already familiar with it, you’re going to miss the points being discussed here because I’m wondering about the background of the series.
Has Willingham stated exactly how it all works out? Did characters like Snow White have an independent existence before they were written about as folklore or were they created by the folklore itself? If they are already in existence, what are they like before being written about? If they are created, do they just spontaneously appear? Or is it a case of them already being powerful characters who are just discovered by mundane writers?
What’s the connection between Earth and the Homelands? Do characters arise on Earth or in the Homelands? Is a connection with Earth required for their ongoing existence? How long ago was the conquest of the Homelands?
It’s been shown that popular belief in a character can give them increased power (Goldilocks and Snow White both survived otherwise mortal injuries because they are well known and Jack’s films made him stronger). But some popular characters like Robin Hood and Aslan are supposedly dead. But they are still popular characters - why haven’t they revived? Or have they?
The Three Little Pigs were killed, but they were immediately replaced. Ditto Baby Bear. It seems that popularity among the mundies isn’t a gurantee of true immortality. The original Robin Hood may have been killed, but some other noble named Robin somewhere has probably taken up banditry in response to the Adversary’s tyranny.
People who ask questions about comics should remember that at least [del]60%[/del] [del]70%[/del] [del]80%[/del] 90% of all the entries on Wikipedia are comics related.
We don’t know the answers to many of these questions. Willingham has been coy, and some evidence from the comics has been contradictory.
That has been stated, but we don’t know for certain it’s the case. Frau Totenkinder has said she doesn’t believe it, and she’s one of the most powerful Fables on Earth despite most Mundys not even knowing her by name.
This may be a half-and-half sort of thing. Is Frankenstein’s Monster a Fable? Maybe, but he was created in this world, not one of the homelands.
And we’ve met two Alices and two sets of Tortoises and Hares (one each at Fabletown or the Farm, and at Golden Boughs Retirement Village (I assume you’re also reading Jack of Fables and not just the original book)).
Centuries and centuries. Presumably Fabletown was founded sometime after Europeans established a presence on Manhattan Island, so the Homelands of most of the Western fables were conquered not later than 1624.
The conquest of the Arab fable homelands, of course, is ongoing.
We’ll have to wait and see. Ther may well be many “right” answers to those questions. I’m sure you noticed that “Wicked John” at Golden Boughs is an alternate version of Jack himself.
I’m also interested in what logic lies behind which worlds connect to each other and which connect to the mundy worlds. It’s definitely been implied that popularity among mundies relates to one’s power, but as has been said Frau Totenkinder belies this.
Her clash with Baba Yaga in particular shows how powerful she remains, they are similar in power yet Totenkinder appears to have the upper hand (for now).
The recent revelation about the forsworn knight adds another element. If a fable chooses to live in obscurity can they retain their influence? Lance’s legend is one of the most well known western myths, what power does he have now that he is sworn to the frog prince?
I can’t wait for this story arc to play out, even if it means less Bigby than usual.
Frau Totenkinder doesn’t nessasary contradict the idea that a Fable gains more power with Mundy belief. I think it had been stated that she has been coming by her power through… other means.
I think Fable-power does certainly seem to bestow some superiority, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only kind. Baba Yaga might have more power from stories (and i’m not sure that’s so), but Frau Totenkinder has more magical power.
However…it may not be the name as much as how many stories you were in and how well known they were. In 1001 Nights of Snowfall, the seperate Fables hardback, one of the stories deals with Frau Totenkinder and how she was THE totemic Wicked Witch. Beauty and the Beast witch = Frau Totenkinder. Rapunzel witch = Frau Totenkinder. Frog Prince witch = Frau Totenkinder.
FT may not buy the theory herself, but circumstantially her stories have farrrrr wider distribution than Baba Yaga’s, at least in the West.
[ol]
[li]Do the Gods of Myth connect with the Fables?[/li][li]Does Fables take place in the DC Universe?[/li][li]Hi, Opal.[/li][li]Are the Fables restricted to living societies? After all, we have some Ancient Egyptian Fables, translated.[/li][li]Is the Fable-Making process ongoing? New Fables, not replacements?[/li][/ol]
[li]Are the Fables restricted to living societies? After all, we have some Ancient Egyptian Fables, translated.[/li][li]Is the Fable-Making process ongoing? New Fables, not replacements?[/li][/list]
[/QUOTE]
We don’t know; the only god-like beings we’ve met so far are the North Wind (Bigby’s father), the Winter Queen, and Santa Claus.
I don’t think it takes place either in the DC universe or in the “standard” Vertigo universe (which is technically within the DC universe, but you never see super-heroes in Hellblazer or Lucifer, for example).
We don’t know yet. But it would seem outside the spirit of the series for Willingham to make up a new character and pretend s/he’s from some lost culture.
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
[list=1]
[li]Do the Gods of Myth connect with the Fables?[/li][/quote]
Bill Willingham has said he doesn’t want to use gods, on the grounds that they’re too powerful and story-breaking. So if they do, they won’t get involved.
[QUOTE]
[li]Does Fables take place in the DC Universe?[/li][/QUOTE]
Nope.
[QUOTE]
[li]Are the Fables restricted to living societies? After all, we have some Ancient Egyptian Fables, translated.[/li][/QUOTE]
It seems to be a matter of stories. As long as the stories continue, the Fables themselves will. So it’s probably harder if that society didn’t survive to pass on their stories, but not impossible.
[QUOTE]
[li]Is the Fable-Making process ongoing? New Fables, not replacements?[/li][/QUOTE]
No idea. But there are more “recent” Fables, as in the American-based ones. Problem is, Fables seem to have existed for far longer than their actual stories have existed over here. So it’s possible that there have been what we’d consider “modern” Fables for a while now. No modern-looking parts of the Homelands, though.
The thing that got me started on this was the recent plotline where Geppetto is working on a plan to essentially sterlize Earth. When I read this I was surprised as I assumed that the Fables (including Geppetto) needed Earth as a source for their existence.
An interesting idea would be to consider that characters like Batman and Superman are at least as much a part of modern folklore as Mowgli and Pinocchio.
Willingham has a very controversial history involving religious figures. He may be trying to avoid (or may have been told to avoid) re-opening that can of worms.
Yes, but of course Willingham will only use characters in the public domain.
And, it’s possible Gepetto doesn’t realize that Earth is necessary. Maybe the metaphysical mechanics of such things have been figured out (or speculated on) only by the refugee Fables in the Mundy world, and the Adversary and his people think ours is just another world.