Interesting article - Marriage is apparenlty much less a compelling state of being than it used to be, and men at the lower mid range of the curve are falling off quickly.
Facing Middle Age With No Degree, and No Wife
via fark
Sounds like my life.
The only thing that I find comforting is that it runs in my family.
Some of us in that age range, with degrees, aren’t all that marriageable, either.
Well… I’m 48 and have a 4 year BS degree and I’m a moderately successful sales professional. I was divorced 10 years ago and I just started dating again several months ago after a 5 year hiatus since my last serious relationship. To be perfectly honest if I look at things objectively, I’d really have to wonder what marriage is going to bring to the table for me, or the other party at this point. The women I have dated so far, (who are generally financially comfortable middle to late 40 and early 50 something professionals) are, so far, willing (and very eager) to have both a physical and emotional relationship without the requirement of marriage being an end game goal.
Now maybe this is something they intend of bringing up if the relationship progresses, but what is the benefit for someone our age? We both have our own houses, own kids, own friends, and our own lives. We come together for some mutual entertainment and pleasure, but they don’t (so far) need me to complete them, and I don’t need them to complete me.
My (generally wise) female friend at work tells me that this state of affairs will change quickly at some point if a woman decides she’s “in love” with me, and financially comfortable professional or not, most women want to be married and I’m kidding myself that these dinner & a movie + sex + more sex relationships are sustainable over the long term.
I’ll suppose we’ll see.
I’m 43.
I’ve never been married, & despite the fact that I want to be, with all my heart, I never will be.
Decades of poverty, & low wages now, have made me a terrible prospect. I couldn’t support or provide for a wife & children in any meaningful way.
I’m friendless, in RL. I was born in the North, & live in the South. The social isolation is terrible, in a small town. But I’m afriad to quit my current job & move away. I don’t know if I could get a new one.
I finally got my degree, & I have no idea how to turn it into a better job, or even what to look for.
My self-esteem is in the toilet, & my health is starting to decline.
I don’t even try to date. Truth to tell, I’m not even sure how.
The thought of coming home to a wife & a child seems like Paradise–and utterly unobtainable.
I simply have nothing to offer as a prospective husband.
I gave up 10 years ago.
What is your degree in, Bosda?
Bosda - say it’s not so! Come on fella, you’re witty - you can type. Basically us girls need someone with intelligence and sensitive fingertips! And you’re still young!
This is just not right. I’m not saying the facts are wrong, just that it’s a sad state of affairs. Posts like Bosda’s make me wonder how such a thing could happen-- there are so many single women who’d love to date (or marry) a nice guy like him. You have a job, you’re not insane, you try to take care of yourself-- I’d think that would be sufficient.
My advice, FWIW, is try the internet. I’m not a single 40-something man with no degree, I’m that other unmarketable demographic-- single woman in her 30’s with lots of cats, and I found a single 30-something guy who likes cats and doesn’t want to be a 40-something single guy.
I will not kid you-- it’s a job of work to find someone decent in the singles market. The internet makes it a bit easier, though just putting up an ad isn’t going to be enough. You have to make an effort, talk to people, kiss a few frogs before you find someone worthwhile. I’m not shilling for this company, but OKCupid is free and I know several people who’ve met someone on it. Try it out, maybe?
Don’t give up!
The OP seems to address two very different groups: men to whom marriage no longer appeals, and men who are want to marry but are unable to find a partner.
I fall into the second group.
I turn 43 today.
I have a three-year college (not university) diploma (not degree) in electronics engineering technology.
Until the last few years, I was a very unattractive prospect as well. And I knew it; it just took a long time to find out why. Bosda’s words were mine:
“I’ve never been married, & despite the fact that I want to be, with all my heart, I never will be.” “I don’t even try to date. Truth to tell, I’m not even sure how.” “The thought of coming home to a wife & a child seems like Paradise–and utterly unobtainable.” “I simply have nothing to offer as a prospective husband.”
I spent much of the past fifteen years battling my inner demons, conquering the fears and depression that had paralysed me, learning how to be social, and learning how to communicate with people.
In the past five years, I have conquered the debt demon, and am now slowly working my way towards greater savings. What with the world situation and all, it looks like some of may long-term interests may end becoming profitable instead of mere hobbies.
I am now planning college courses for the fall and by this time next year may be starting my own part-time consultancy and design business.
All in all, I’m in a lot better place than I was a year ago.
But does this help in the dating and marriage field? It seems that oppurtunities are still few and far-between. I’m not giving up, though. If I don’t meet someone here in the next year or so, I will start looking further afield, starting with my online contacts, continuing with the 2007 World Esperanto Congress, and moving outward from there. I’ll go to far places like the former Soviet Union if I need to.
Some people want the permanence that marriage brings to (or at least reinforces in) a relationship. Some don’t particularly care about that. I think either approach is OK (though personally, I am much more satisfied in my relationship with Mr. Neville now that we’re married). It’s not that we “complete” each other or anything like that. And even some people who don’t particularly want to get married wouldn’t find it satisfactory if they had to live separately from their SO in an arrangement like yours.
This is a joke, right? Childlesness doesn’t run for long in anybody’s family.
Keep up hope, guys. I thought I was unmarriable, but I eventually found someone insane enough for the position.
I have a couple of friends in this situation. Didn’t date for years, and still lived with mother. Good guys, but without romantic prospects, and little apparent interest in pursuing them.
Bachelor of University Studies, a 5 year Liberal Arts program.
Aw geez, Bosda, do you think it’s possible that you’re setting your standards too high?
Seriously, when I was a teen and in my 20’s and not getting girls, I was constantly told that it’s all in my attitude. I didn’t believe it. I did get married to a great woman but we split amicably last year. I was terrified of not being able to get dates but it was about a hundred times easier than I thought it would be.
As it happens, I am good on paper. I am 42, graduate degree, great job, own a home and fit. You know what? That generally doesn’t count for shit. What I had been told all along is true. In general, women love confidence. I realized that there is no such thing as a woman who is out of my league. I have dated beautiful women half my age and beautiful women around my age who are extremely successful, more so than I. Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can. What the fuck is it going to hurt to keep trying?
I was wondering why the degree wasn’t helping with the career… hate to say it, but I understand now. Some degrees are just hard to convert to vocational capital, although a degree in anything plus some professional skill are often sufficient.
I think the real issue is social isolation. It’s better to have a social network in place than to have a wife so you can be isolated together. Join a neighborhood group, a club, or something, and get to know a few people. Social capital is essential for all those things (career, attractiveness to potential mates, confidence, general happiness) and should be pursued first. No man is an island, etc.
I’m pretty much in Bosda’s boat myself. But add two tick marks against me (hey, when there’s a pity party I come to play):
- I have no desire to be a father or stepfather. Yes, I love kids - but other people’s.
- I am deeply, deeply cynical about the career thing. I freelance for my mom’s company, out of my house (or infrequently, hers nearby). I do all right, and I could no doubt do better out in the market if I weren’t so jaded about ambition and ambitious people. I feel, irrationally, that they’re all either mercenary or naive, and I have no desire to join their ranks.
Do 1. and 2. add up to:
3. I am unloving and unlovable?
I say it shouldn’t have to. But I suspect it’s going to make me poison to most women regardless of my self-confidence (which is shaky at best - I usually can only manage a kind of acerbic curmodgeonhood).
Here’s something me and a number of female friends were discussing when it comes to men and success: we all agreed that a man doesn’t neccesarily have to have something, but he’s got to want something. In other words, you don’t already have to have the big house and the SUV and the 401(k), but you’ve got to have some drive to want to better yourself and take care of yours. By “take care of yours” I don’t mean buying her shoes, or whatever, but taking care of the things that need taking care of: your health, your life, your friends, your career, your family.
But love from someone else isn’t going to mean anything if you don’t love yourself first. That’s why women love confident, secure men – because if you’re insecure and you hate yourself, it doesn’t matter how much we love you. You’ll be convinced you don’t deserve it, and always be wondering why we’re ‘wasting’ our time on you. You’ve got to work on yourself first.
What does a degree have to do with this? Since when does a girl say, “Oh he’s cute but he majored in art history ten years ago!”
This never happens. Now, if you’re 40 and work at Burger King and drive a Pacer, you’re SOL, but it’s not like 99% of chicks give a crap about whether you finished college as long as your shit is otherwise together. I’m not seeing the connection between unmarried, and lack of formal college education.
Happy birthday.
I’m somewhere in this group, too. I turn 41 this week. I don’t think I’m likely to get married, and I’m not entirely satisfied with that.
Damn Bosda, ever thought of going where you and your degree make you desirable?
I work for an American school overseas. Married to a wonderful local. Do you know just how far being an egalitarian partner goes in the rest of the world? I cook. I am not afraid to buy tampons at the store. I listen. I communicate. My wife cherishes those things. A LOT of foreign women would kill for a man that doesn’t cheat, comes home at night and doesn’t beat them when drunk.
Buddy, I’ll hook you up. Email me for a lengthier discussion on career and life choices abroad. Screw the South, Go East young man, go East!
-Tcat
I was married, later than my age cohort average, and divorced after having two children to add to the two who were in the family I gained. Oh, wait, I didn’t gain that family. Turns out the absence of enough money to pay for adoptions in court means that I had no right to even see my two oldest sons. That was the first step in a bitter fight. It was long, and it still lingers.
Now, I am sixty, or thereabouts. Yeah, I suppose the failures of my earlier experience are a part of it, but the fact is that women have seldom been interested in me as a lover. They were not before I was married, nor after I was divorced. I must admit as well to some lingering bitterness that there were more women interested in me as a lover during my marriage than either before or since.
I decided about twenty years ago that wanting a relationship hurt me more than the likelihood of having a relationship could ever make up for. I became celibate. I didn’t lose interest in sex, just decided not to pursue that interest. Also, I did not, and do not believe that I can say “I will love you forever.” I did say it, and I did mean it, but it did not happen. Saying it again would be a lie. And the time between my divorce and my “retirement” proved to me that that was what women wanted. “I love you now” was not even close. Casual sex proved to me that I am not casual about sex.
So, I hurt, and I survived. Finding out that men older than forty are less inclined to marriage doesn’t seem in any way surprising. I don’t know if anything about me is typical, although I don’t get accused of typicality all that often. But I suspect that I am quite ordinary in this regard. The loneliness sucks. But it isn’t new. And the serial heartache sucked worse. To this very day, or at least twice in the last year, I have had to very firmly advise associates that I did not want to get “fixed up” with anyone. The prospect of a “date” is distressing in even a theoretical way. (not likely enough to actually produce fear, you understand, hence the theoretical aspect.)
Tris