Educated achieving women dating

In My Humble Opinion
1

Horrible title but hard to summarize the question.

Background: the number of college educated and beyond women in their 20s and 30s with pretty high paying jobs is increasing while the number of men with those characteristics is not. Statistically men of lower education level are more likely to be of more traditional values. Women of higher education level more likely to not be. Women generally are more likely to swipe right for a man who has higher income and higher education.

But which is preferred when only one is present? Which is more important? (Debate with my wife whose clients in her therapy practice include some in that age group dealing with dating in their early thirties)

I realize our board is short on single women in that age group so please feel free to share what you’ve gathered from friends and adult children.

I’m guessing education, and the more equality minded value sets that tend to travel with it, are of more importance to a highly educated successful women than a potential partner making more than them. My wife thinks money matters lots more.

My late 20s junior partner married her high school sweetheart and is both more highly educated and higher paid than he is. Her take based on friends is agreeing that education matters more “unless he’s stupid rich”.

Opinions?

2

Mid-dau, not yet 30 (divorced) says men of any type are in short supply. And the odds he’ll date are lower when he finds out she has 2 children.

And she looks great. I promise.
She dated a blue collar worker last year (she is college educated) who was here on an construction job. Thought all was going well.
She found out he was married. Wife and kids in another part of the state.

She’s sworn off all dating til she comes to terms with that confounding situation.

Til men and women can be completely truthful with each other, it’s full of landmines.
I told her, “yeah you thought teen dating was tough!”

3

Back in 2009, a 35-year study arrived at the observation contained in its title: The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness and the Impact of Social Capital

Since rational actors don’t like paradox, the majority of women seem to have addressed those factors over which they could exert some control. Their jobs sucked, but unemployment isn’t an option, and the suck level could be understood as simple economics. What can’t be helped must be endured.

But dating and marriage dissatisfaction don’t have to be endured, but can be remedied by opting out. If women don’t feel reciprocated for their contributions, then, as the saying has it, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze. She endures a bad day at work, just like him; but once back home, unlike him after his own sucky day, she is expected to do most of the childcare and housework. Because these guys still think it’s 1954. (My brothers and I were raised in a home where that was not how it was done, but there’s no denying the data that that’s what’s out there poisoning relationships still in the 2020s). Me, I don’t get it, because so many of these drone husbands were raised by moms who’d divorced their dads. Why weren’t these guys tapped as domestic help from an early age?

Even if men do contribute equally to home/family maintenance and management (materially and emotionally), if they fall off the earning treadmill, they still might expect the relationship to be dissolved. Men know this, and it may be why they don’t lift a finger around the house. “Why bother? I’m just a wallet here anyway.”

Those are the big relationship killers in general. For the OP’s high-achieving women the stakes are higher. The time when people normally find long-term mates is also when their social class is focused on climbing the corporate ladder, getting their PhD, etc. Anyone they connect with at their same level can be pulled off on their own trajectory to a job far away. Forget the fallacy of finding Prince Charming: just finding Even Steven isn’t a possibility.

As time goes on, I predict that there will be more and more unions of high-earning women with blue-collar men: men with sills on the trades that migrate well, and who also can and will keep the home running smoothly. But these women will have to get past 1954 themselves. (My SO, though retired, fits this description; and growing up in a home that was years ahead of its time finally paid off for me).

4

I don’t think I’ve ever understood this. Surely most people in the dating pool are in their 20s and 30s, so everyone is still at fairly early stages of their careers and unless their dates are lawyers or bankers, it’s pretty hard to tell who’s going to end up being the higher earner in any couple. I’ve always dated people who are broadly of a similar education level to myself (I’m pre dating apps so I met people in real life), and who ended up earning more was part luck, part timing.

5
Please don't reply to off-topic post. It would hijack the thread. {WE?}

From the women I have dated and been in relationships with, I think the domestic issue of “women do work and do all of the domestic stuff as well” is BS.

If you look at those surveys, you know what “chore” women do most of all? Decorating. The fun one, the one that costs money.

Women want control over the domestic domain. They are fine with hiring cleaning services and having nothing in the fridge.

6

I am in that demographic-ish:

  • In my thirties
  • Undergrad degree
  • Six-figure salary
  • Unmarried - I am living with a long-term partner, but I went through a divorce in my thirties so I was very single for a period of time in there.

Income is more important than education. My partner does not need to make more than I do (and as a matter of fact, he doesn’t). But I really don’t give AF what education level my partner has - neither my current partner nor my ex-husband had a college degree, and in my twenties, I dated a guy who dropped out of high school for the better part of a year.

But I really need a man who can afford something approaching my lifestyle. If I want to go on vacations that he can’t afford to go on, or eat at restaurants that he can’t afford to eat at, then I’d really have to alter my lifestyle to accommodate the partnership.

7

Moderating, this really seems off-topic. I’m going to hide it and ask no one respond to it.

8

Have you experienced a difference in perspectives regarding “values” including expectations of a woman’s role between the groups?

Many higher earning men would be comfortable being the one to pay for most of the costs of a more expensive date or even vacation together. Would that ever be a consideration for someone who otherwise (values, intelligence, sense of humor, sexual attraction…) appealed to you?

9

Because many of those moms also bought into patriarchy and didn’t make their boys do chores? I think it is documented that many households make daughters do more chores than sons.

10

While this gets afield of my question I do have to share that there have been quite a few families in my practice with the father being the primary at home caregiver and the mother the primary wage earner. It happens a bit less now but still sometimes that the mother seems to feel the need to be the one in charge during the kid’s appointment even if she has to ask the father for the information: there is a lot of internalizing of these societally imposed roles. I’m biting my tongue from asking her to let him tell me directly a bit! A bit less now than say ten years ago.

I also have friends in which the woman is at least as accomplished in their career as the man and it is at least as much the woman taking on the addition being in charge of the family and meals etc as it is the man when I’ve seen it happen.

11

We had the same expectations for both children, but our daughter spent about four times as many hours on household chores as our son. They were each supposed to make dinner once a week. He quickly worked out what was the least effort he could get away with. She, despite being clumsy and really slow to peel and slice food, opted to make the dishes she liked more. They were both responsible for their own laundry. He dumped everything into one load, she separated stuff and did multiple loads etc.

Anyway, I’m going to guess that whether education or income matters more depends on the woman. And also, the man. A smart, witty high school grad who decided to work for his father’s plumbing business rather than go to college is going to date better than a guy who hated school and barely scraped through high school. And a guy with a job that comes with more status than pay (such as minister) is going to fare better thana guy with a crappy job.

I’m older than the demographic in the OP, but i opted for educated, and my brilliant PhD husband was a stay at home dad for several years.

12

I’m having a bit of trouble discerning your questions.

  1. “Have you experienced a difference in perspectives regarding ‘values’ including expectations of a woman’s role between the groups?” Between what groups – higher and lower earners? Any man that I’ve dated for longer than a few weeks either made significantly less money than I did, or close to the same amount, so if that’s what you’re asking, I don’t have the experience to answer that.

ETA: If this seems at odds with my earlier answer, about income being more important – it’s just about them being able to keep up with my lifestyle. The guys who made a lot less money than I did just lived in a cheap place and probably didn’t save much for retirement. We didn’t date for long enough for those things to be a serious concern.

  1. “Many higher earning men would be comfortable being the one to pay for most of the costs of a more expensive date or even vacation together. Would that ever be a consideration for someone who otherwise (values, intelligence, sense of humor, sexual attraction…) appealed to you?” Not sure what you mean by “would that ever be a consideration.” Are you asking if I’d want them to do that? If it would be conceivable for them to do that? If it would be a turn-off?

That has been an occasional occurrence in my relationships. My ex-husband spent several thousand dollars on an engagement ring for me, and we had a small wedding so there wasn’t any equivalent expense on my part. My partner had a good day trading stocks and bought a cruise vacation for the two of us. I wouldn’t mind a bit if my partner dropped a few thousand on another nice vacation for us.

I will say that after my divorce, I was a bit uncomfortable at the idea of dating a rich man. When my husband moved out, I was able to keep our house and suffered a slight decline in my standard of living, but nowhere near the decline that many divorcees have to go through. And I did consider that if I got with a rich man and got accustomed to a lavish lifestyle, that it would be incredibly hard to have a drastic decrease in my living circumstances and I’d rather not take that risk.

13

Higher educated but earning less than you, e.g. a degree even an advanced that did not translate into a well paid career path so working a variety of lower paid jobs versus someone who did well career wise with no or little college education.

No. If you’d be comfortable with the tables turned.

Of course there is much individual variation but I’m pretty confident that you more than most here appreciate that can still be overall group trends.

Maybe it would help if I flipped my question?

Which would be the bigger “nope won’t consider that person”? Swipe left.

The man whose degree did not translate into a well paid career (working regularly and living within his modest means, maybe that geology Asian Poetry or anthro degree didn’t lead to a great income position). Car is well maintained but old. They live with a roommate. So on.

Or the man who has a higher income a nicer apartment and car but never graduated college.

Again, based on supply demand now. Men had no issue partnering with a women of lesser education and income when men tended to be the ones more frequently more highly educated and paid. We are reaching a point where women will be in the position where their available choices in men either make significantly less money and or are significantly less educated than them. Is one more a stopper than the other.

14

As i said, personally, i went for education. But I’m not sure my preferences match the average.

15

  1. No, I haven’t noticed a difference.

  2. As in, would I be comfortable being the one paying most of the costs of something? No. I’ve done it, but I’m not comfortable with it, and that’s exactly why I answered your initial question the way I did. I don’t remember ever feeling that a situation was unfair or more advantageous to a partner due to our differences in levels of education. I have had times where I’ve felt unduly burdened or held back by a partner’s income, which is why a potential partner’s income would matter more to me than a potential partner’s level of education.

16

Education is the most important to me.

My husband makes more than me, but he didn’t always.

I’m a learning-oriented person and I want someone I can talk to and learn from. Good conversation is everything to me.

I don’t know if I can come down too hard on the women who want money though. It’s hard to make things work financially these days. From a sheer logistical perspective, money is good.

17

In my personal experience, this is actually a point in favor of the less educated men I’ve been with. A fellow college-educated man tends to have a bit more similar of an upbringing and life experience than someone who didn’t go to college. Different perspectives make for good conversation!

18

I’m an East Tennessee hillbilly married to a woman with a Master’s degree from the Baltimore/DC area. I never liked school, but due to the fact I have no aptitude for the trades ended up with a Master’s as well. My first gf was not well educated, but I don’t know that was why we broke up. Education doesn’t always equal intelligence.

19

I’m not a high earner but I’m kinda educated. I have a bachelor’s degree. And I’ve always been gainfully employed. Own my own home and car. I have my own business.

I’ve dated an educated poor guy. Total asshole. Then dated an educated rich guy. Even more of an asshole. Then dated a really smart but non educated poor guy. Total asshole.

The guy I’ve been with the longest, the one I’m with now, is not educated but smart. That’s how all of the men in my family are - dad, brother, grandpa, uncles, cousins. Only one male relative went to college but everyone has been a hard worker and a clever guy. So I don’t think I’ve ever, ever put any weight to being “educated.”

Be kind. Be gentle. Love your mother. Don’t ever be threatening to me. We’ll work out, and I’ll pick up the check. It’s fine.

20

Not myself single, but in my 20’s, I would definitely have been significantly more attracted to the higher-education lower-income man and would not want to date the lower-education higher-income man. (Lol, like your partner, “unless he’s stupid rich,” but I think that would only be good for a couple of dates – even then I’d feel a lack of meeting of the minds would eventually sink the relationship.) That is to say… you wouldn’t necessarily need an official doctorate or whatever, but good grammar and ability to do difficult physics problems and things like that are a turn-on. (I don’t think I’m typical, but I do think there’s a subset of women like this, where attraction is tied to intellectual prowess instead of power/money.)

For eventual marriage/family, the income would have been significantly more important to me than it would have been for dating (because I had societal expectations about not being responsible for supporting a family, and also a vast amount of impostor syndrome – idk how much those are true of women these days). But of course we’d never get to the question of marriage if I “swiped left” due to the lack of education.