Fake Watches

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Years ago, steps from the entrance to Vatican City, I spent ten euros on a fake automatic “Rollex” (everything was spelled correctly; automatic means it had a mechanism where winding and movement replaced the need for a watch battery). It could tell the time and date but lacked an alarm or fancy features. I never tested the dubious 200m waterproofing claim etched on the back. None of the phrasing or words were misspelled and it looked okay, though the watch and band weee clearly were not made of silver, gemstones or pixie dust.

I have bought other counterfeit watches before. I gave a bunch of ones as gifts, fashionable looking but proudly saying SWISS MADES on the face, which amused me. Some have lasted a day or turned Gremlin when wet. But many have lasted years, and a few look great.

  1. How do the economics of a good fake watch work? How could they make an automatic one (requires no battery) for such a ridiculous price?

  2. Any stories or experiences regarding your purchase of a fake watch?

  3. What is the best counterfeit item you have purchased from a stranger on the street? From a formal store or market?

  4. A police officer, who specialized in this sort of thing, once told me counterfeiting was wrong and problematic. He quoted the example of electrical items that faked the seal of a standards authority but were shoddily made and represented a hazard. I’m sure this is true and he had a good point. Is he right in a wider sense as well?

2

It’s Rolex.

3

So it could have been an authentic Rollex.

4

I didn’t think of that !

5

Because they don’t cost very much to make.
Ok, we can say a bit more than that – a well-made automatic watch that will last decades or more uses intricate, high quality parts and of course cannot be made for 10 euros (actually 10 euros is an amazing price; the cheapest automatics on aliexpress are around 30 euros).

But if you take the price of a Rolex from the 1960s and adjust for inflation, you arrive at around $1,000, which is approximately the price of a AAA fake Rolex. I think that’s a reflection of the true cost of manufacturing this quality of watch.

Everything else is largely a function of Rolex’ status as a show of wealth, market speculation, market manipulation and a bit of higher production costs due to manufacturing in Switzerland.

Not really. I have a fake Rolex, but bought by “accident”; I saw a watch online that I liked the look of and didn’t realize it would come with Rolex branding. It does look good, and works well, but of course the concern with wearing this watch is ever being asked “Is that a real Rolex?”. I’d remove the branding from the dial if I could.

Also, I lived in Shanghai for some years and there were lots of places where you could get fake watches, but they always involved bartering, never a simple price. I don’t like bartering. Besides, fakes legally couldn’t be on show, you needed to ask to see them. It was all too much awkwardness for a Brit like me to partake.

On any of the youtube / internet watch channels, often the first thing they will say is not to purchase fakes. I think most of their reasons fall flat though.

I shed no tears for Rolex: they don’t pay taxes and they’ve manipulated the market with artificial scarcity.
And arguments like “This fake has taken $15,000 from Patek Philippe’s pocket” don’t land either – the vast, vast majority of people buying fakes were not going to buy the real thing.

The reason a fake is bad for you is because of the awkward question I mentioned above (so I would recommend buying a less well-known fake, or an homage watch). And the victim is basically the person who has saved up for a real Rolex and it is devalued by the fact it looks the same as fakes that are commonly seen.
So, perhaps morally murky in some senses but not a lot different to a fake handbag IMO. And I’m keeping my fake Rolex.

6

I am bemused you thought I did not know how to spell Rolex when they advertise everywhere (magazines, and especially tennis and golf). It is spelled correctly on the watch, but I wanted to emphasize it is not authentic. But maybe they persuaded Rolex middlemen to sell dozens of watches at a steep discount to people in Rome who want to see the Vatican.

Rolex doesn’t pay taxes?

Although these purchases were twenty years ago, the automatic feature still works, and so I clearly don’t understand the economics very well. This would mean these can still be manufactured very cheaply (although certainly does not mean they use the same materials or mechanism as an authentic watch).

7

You put “Rollex” in quotes, which implies to me that you were quoting the exact spelling found on the watch. Then you said “everything was spelled correctly,” adding to the confusion.

8

I apologize for being unclear. I would definitely pay good money for a nicely designed watch saying “Rock & Rollex” though.

9

I just thought it was an amusing typo !

10

No. Rolex is technically a non-profit. Or, even more technically: it’s the profit-making arm of a charitable organization.

Rolex pays no corporate taxes. Now, they can legitimately argue that Rolex (the charity) does give money to various causes, from watch-making schools to environmental projects. However, there’s no way of knowing if this comes close to the amount that they would have paid in corporate taxes (likely $billions a year), as Swiss law means they don’t need to publish their financial accounts.

It’s the same deal with Ikea, although in that case Swedish law means they do need to publish their accounts, and we see that the amount Ikea gives to charities and schools is absolutely tiny. However, Ikea still technically make no profit overall, as they have to pay billions a year to “Ikea systems” for the rights to the Ikea name. Which the same family also owns.

</rant>

11

I don’t know if that is a better deal than taking out a 9000 year lease and paying under fifty quid yearly rent for your brewery. Of course it isn’t who you know, and no doubt these enormous corporations deserve such munificent largesse.

12

Cheap sweatshop labor.

13

This is absolutely a concern in many industries and can not only pose hazards, it can be fatal. An unapproved “knock off” part which doesn’t meet its design definition and qualifications can fail when a correct part wouldn’t, and can lead to catastrophic outcomes. The quality control and recording process to validate the part often far exceeds the cost of the actual approved part itself.

Here’s the FAA website on Suspected Unapproved Parts. All reports are investigated and corrective action can be taken where necessary (e.g. aircraft grounding, mandatory inspections, part replacement, etc.). Other equivalent regularly agencies (Transport Canada, EASA, etc.) have similar programs and information sharing between them.

14

I’ve seen fake Rolex watches that include a GPS readout.

They have their time and place (ducking).

15

A Rolex Submariner (5513) was $150.00 in 1967 …

details here:

https://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.php

16

I used to work for a company that investigated counterfeit products and I’ve spent many hours at flea markets and similar locations purchasing (possible) counterfeits. You name it…sunglasses, t-shirts, watches, knives, OTC medications, shoes…we bought stacks of it. We actually attended training sessions to help us recognize counterfeits so we wouldn’t waste our time buying real items that had simply been stolen. (Stealing a pallet of Michael Jordan t-shirts is pretty lucrative, BTW.)

I asked about the economics of making counterfeit watches and sunglasses. The trainer said, “Think of how much you save by not having to design a product, market it, pay for licensing, provide warranty service, or guarantee it. You can make pretty good fakes and still sell them for virtually nothing.” Over the years, I have seen some very, very good counterfeit watches. You can actually use them for some spare parts to repair an authentic one. (How long the repair will last, I can’t say.)

And, in case you’re wondering, the clients wanted to know WHERE the fakes came from and WHO sold them to the street vendor. In order to get this information, we would often have to first buy a lot of other crap in order gain the vendor’s confidence. I must have handled a couple hundred pounds of cheap pocket knives, bad t-shirts, and lousy soap.

17

I remember listening to a podcast about a person similar to you who was contracted by the FOX company to find out where all the bad fake Simpsons T-shirts were coming from, I wish I could remember the name of it.

18

I’m so glad you asked. I have a story to tell with pics!

My mother’s grandmother had a non-working watch in her jewelry box.

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I hope that works, if the pic doesn’t show up, click on the link.

Nobody knew why Grandma had the watch and she didn’t say. When she passed, she left the watch to my mother in her will. No explanation was included.

Mom’s mom held onto the watch until Mom was all grown up and gave it to her to put in her jewelry box.

Mom kept it until one of those antique road shows came to town and learned that the watch was a cheapo that probably wasn’t working when grandma got it. As there was no value to it, she turned it into a lovely needlework piece.

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Grandma was a farm wife and her husband was gone long hours every day. Depression “hobos” would beg for food on a regular basis and Grandma always managed to find something to share with them.

Our theory is that a grifter came along with a sob story about the only thing of value he had was his father’s watch but if Grandma could only lend him a few dollars to help him get back on his feet, he would be back for his watch. We suspect some kissing happened as well because the watch had so much importance to her.

The watch in question cost about a dime to buy back in the day. It is worth less than that now but served it’s purpose for the makers and one of the buyers.

19

My grandfather in Moundsville, WV, ran a diary and a gas station during the depression. When he passed away in the 50s, he had at least a dozen pocket watches (most of which ran fine) that he had taken in exchange for gas. My father said it was quite common in those days. Some people would come back and ask to buy back the watches, which was fine with my grandfather. I have two of those at this moment. Neither one is fancy or expensive…just basic watches in use during that period.

20

Your mother’s grandmother. And I know you’re decently old well-seasoned to perfection yourself.

Roughly when was your great grandmother young enough to be kissing hobos? 1850? :wink: