I’m to understand that there are these signs that a designer product, such as a Gucci bag or a Rolex watch or Air Jordans or what have you, is a knockoff. Perhaps the knockoff second hand on your fake Rolex stops and starts rather than making a continuous movement. Or some indication in the stitching of a knockoff Gucci bag. Or whatever.
Is this some sort of legal fiction meant to shield the knockoff manufacturers from legal/civil action? Like, the guy who sells knockoff Gucci bags can tell Gucci’s lawyers that he isn’t really claiming to sell Guccis — look at the stitching! If someone is going to sell a knockoff designer product, why don’t the manufacturers make their products to the same specifications as the thing they’re knocking off?
I think some of is simply that they’re not capable of achieving the same quality as the original goods; the continuous sweep of the second hand in a genuine Rolex watch, for example.
Just avoid Rolecks and Goochi products. Those guys aren’t even trying.
As for real counterfeits, the only giveaway might be the price. The materials and quality might be the same, though someone involved in the manufacture of the real thing can spot the differences.
They aren’t going to succeed in defending legal action if they sell an item with Gucci or Rolex branding and styling just because of some minor differences.
They are just not being perfectionist about it. The cost of doing so is probably too high to bother.
I doubt any serious counterfeiter is still producing fake Rolexes without the expected hand sweep. The fact that people actually believe a steady sweep confirms authenticity only helps counterfeiters sell their knock offs.
Poor counterfeiting is no defense to counterfeiting.
As a side note, at some point it must stop being fruitful when you are using excellent materials and craftsmanship to knock off someone else. A counterfeiter could end up with a legitimate business opportunity on their hands.
I’m not suggesting that the poor quality is meant as a defense, but instead that they’re not willing or capable of producing the same level of quality. (And don’t those fake Rolex watches sell for under a hundred bucks? At that price point, it’s simply not possible to produce the same quality goods.)
BTW, Googling, there are Chinese brands of mechanical watches that sell for as little as $150 (for one from Tianjin Seagull) on up to tens of thousands of dollars (for ones from companies like Lin Yong Hua or Qian GuoBiao).
No. It would not be protection from legal action. As has been said, the companies making the knockoffs are generally operating on a much lower budget. So, the copies they produce are inferior.
OTTOMH
In the nineties, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle action figures showed up at dollar stores. I was surprised and inspected one. It had clearly been made from the same mold as an official figure. The plastic was, even without touching it, clearly inferior. It would turn brittle and break quickly. The pieces attached at joints had much more space between them and were clearly looser. No attempt had been made to disguise or alter the character or the registered trademarks. It was just a crappy knockoff, and I should probably Google the case to see what happened.
Using excellent materials and craftsmanship are not key to the profitability of luxury brands (although that may be involved). Their key assets are their IP. Their brand name. Someone merely being able to make a high quality bag isn’t going to get them far.
This is correct. In fact i would love to see the case where the luxury brand insists that the materials and craftsmanship of the imposter exceed their own.
When it comes to watches, for the major brands - especially Rolex - the name is worth a significant part of the price. Rolex are a very secretive company (more so then any of the others - they are privately held by a trust - and publish almost nothing about their operations). But I have seen a number of estimates that suggest that their production costs are likely no more than 20% of retail. A huge amount of money is spent on advertising and brand promotion.
There are quite a few videos of people taking fake Rolexes in to be verified by specialist dealers. The efforts that are made by the fakers is quite remarkable. There are tells. But the fakers get better and better. A cheap knockoff won’t even weigh the same. But high quality knockoffs would fool anyone who didn’t know exactly what to look for. And still hard if you didn’t have a real one with you to make direct comparisons with. Often only very slight differences in the quality of finishing steps. Slightly less distinct engraving, tiny burrs on edges only visible with significant magnification, and so on.
Take the back off and it is more obvious - but even here better fakes take the time to attempt to put Rolex branding on the movement. But it is a lot harder to make the movement look right. The fakers don’t make movements, and Rolex movements, whilst largely machine made and finished, are made and finished to a very high standard. But just the layout of the movement is an instant giveaway.
The very high price of Swiss watches partly reflect the high cost of doing business. The ability of the Chinese manufacturers to make high quality watches cannot be underrated. Right now for a watch to say “Swiss Made” only 60% of the input has to be from Switzerland. It is becoming more common for the other 40% to be Chinese components. Which can easily include cases, dials, hands, bracelets, crowns - all the externally visible bits. Traditionally most Swiss watches were assembled from parts made by specialist parts manufacturers that serviced the entire industry. Rolex being one of the few mainstream high volume brands that does everything in house. Large conglomerates like the Swatch Group, LMVH, or Richemont, (who between them own nearly every other Swiss watch brand you have ever heard of, from the cheapest to the eye wateringly expensive) own many companies and can source internally, but for their cheaper and mid-range watches almost certainly use many Chinese parts.
But as more work is outsourced to China, the capability of the Chinese parts manufacturers has risen, and now they can make anything to as high a quality as you want to pay for. So fakes have risen to a similar level.
The advent of micro-brands - which design a watch and then source all the parts - sees watches at many price points and qualities. The parts manufacturers will cheerfully finish the parts to whatever quality you want and are willing to pay for. To the point where the same part might appear on different brand watches at very different price points, but with noticeable differences in apparent quality.
Movements are where the fakers become stymied. Movements are not trivial to design, or set up to manufacture. Movements generally in use go back a long way, and many have a common heritage in design. The vast majority of Swiss watches have movements based only a few original designs. Fakers can only use a few movements, and all are from this heritage. Faking a real modern Rolex movement would involve investments that make no sense. Nobody buying a fake would care anyway. Only someone being sold one as real will care, and the fake manufacturers are not in that game.
Cartier make a problem for themselves in that they have a lot of models with quartz movements. And everything is about the brand and design. So they are a really easy target for fakes of any quality.
Production costs for most products are only 25% of retail. It doubles for wholesale and doubles again for retail. I have no doubt Rolex gets a premium for just their brand that is well in excess of a 5% mark up over the norm.
I’ve read that so long as your knockoff Jordans, Gucci, Rolex, etc is surrounded by gold fringe, any court of law you are brought before will lack jurisdiction.
I read the Rolex Reddit and one recent story stands out. Many watch wearers buy knockoff Rolexes, Patek Pillippe. etc. They call them “shitters” and are quite open about them and realistic about tiny details. It seems the very best shitters are referred to as “analog” shitters since the makers go to the trouble to match the visible details quite nicely.
This guy worked at a Rolex dealership and wore his analog shitter one day when an important client was there. It was a copy of a very high end watch. The client remarked that the guy must get paid a very high commission to be able to afford such a watch. Oops. So he fessed up and proudly showed the little details that made the shitter so convincing. The client then remarked to his boss (who was present all along) that he was disgusted that the salesman was allowed to wear fake watches. He got fired.
Another thing I learned from the forum is how hard it is to actually buy a Rolex. Although a dealer will have certain watches in stock, in general if you want a particular style you have to apply for one. The company will put you on a list and when they have one available you get a call to come down and inspect it. Every few days someone post on the group, “I got the call - woo hoo!”
The call comes from Tom Sawyer who reluctantly admits that for a small fee he may permit you the privilege of whitewashing a small part of Aunt Polly’s fence.