Family, lies, and weddings... an open letter

The BBQ Pit
61

I hear this… I think it’s a reasonable position. At yet every time I read the OP I keep coming back to the same conclusion. Obviously the uncle’s family wouldn’t keep bringing it up if they didn’t feel bad about it on some level, and I feel that’s not being recognized or appreciated. And I think it’s beyond petty to refuse to cash a check they sent. I cannot think of a single person I hate so much that I wouldn’t take their money if offered as a gift. Okay, I can think of one, and a comparison cannot even begin to be made to this situation.

I just see things more from the perspective of the uncle I guess… why the hell would he and his family want to come to a wedding filled with people who actively loathe him? I don’t think you’re giving any consideration for the way your relatives feel, bassoonatic. You’re just thinking they didn’t come because they don’t care about you. Maybe it’s because they would have really felt uncomfortable attending in light of all the family drama. Maybe there’s something you don’t know about that prevented them from coming.

My Dad, for instance, I knew he would be uncomfortable and told him he didn’t have to come if he didn’t want to come, but he said he wanted to, and probably a part of him did. I had one uncle who could not attend because he is mentally ill. I settled for displaying a poem he wrote me at the gift table. Hosting an event like that is in a very large way about taking the comfort of your guests seriously… if they would be more comfortable not being your guests, that applies too. I don’t think it’s fair for you to demand an explanation. They don’t owe you one. If these were your closest relatives, I might feel differently, but these are people obviously estranged from you that you don’t even like that much. It sounds like you just regard this as another reason not to like them even more.

And I don’t think it’s fair to accuse the Dope of hive mind so readily. I am not participating in a pile on. I am expressing my individual opinion.

62

I do understand what you are saying, I think, but this is probably where I bring my own prejudices to light in regards the OP. There may be many reasons the uncle’s family keeps bringing this up besides possibly feeling bad… they are being nagged to death about it by the grandmother, there the kind of people who can slight / hurt / do whatever to other folks but refuse to allow the same thing to be done to them and therefore won’t let it go / they LIKE keeping shit stirred up – are all things that readily spring to mind as potential causes.

In my own life, my mother would be the Grand Master of the last two (and she admits she loves strife and inflicting it on others) until she could absolutely run something into the ground (or beyond) and bend everything to her will. That’s just how she is. And every once in a while, she so completely crosses a line with me that I typically ignore (or deal with internally), that there’s some sort of retaliation that she probably deems in the same way that the OP’s family has seen her sending back the check.

But I agree that I would definitely have kept the money and made my statement elsewhere. Plus, I’m only guessing as to motives from the other side of the fence. No matter what though, I still think the reason some in this thread have come to the defense (for lack of a better word) is because it feels, not like a pile-on per se’ (and definitely not a “hive mind” – argh, I’ve never used that phrase before and believe it’s utter bullshit around here), but a leap to conclussions not necessarily in attendance. And not by everyone, just those that rush to label this former bride in such totally negative and immature terms. As Across notes, there is a backlash and so in turn, the backlash is having one of it’s own. :o

And just for the record olives, I didn’t view your replies as anything but totally your opinion and thoughtful like always.

63

You are a very sweet person. I do know what it’s like to deal with a crazy Mom and petty, vindictive relatives. It is very possible that I’m filtering things through my own perspective. Weddings have a nasty habit of highlighting what’s wrong with your family and they can be very frustrating ordeals, not the least because everyone requires you, as Across said, to be overjoyed at every single moment. A lot of the planning of my wedding was incredibly stressful, and a part of the stress was the fear that any little thing I could do would result in the Bridezilla label. I went out of my way to be as accommodating as possible and some people still weren’t satisfied. It’s a tricky tightrope to walk. And though I didn’t voice my anger at the time, I was more than a little annoyed with my family members who didn’t show… the personal feelings aside, when you RSVP to an event and don’t show, it costs money. Especially when you are paying for your own wedding this is extremely frustrating.

I’m just one of those people who would rather avoid an uncomfortable family event than grin and bear it… with no disrespect meant to the host, it’s just that I sometimes have to honor my own boundaries at the expense of others’ disappointment. Some of us deliberately keep our family at a distance for the sake of our own sanity. In the OPs case that doesn’t seem like such a bad idea.

64

How do you know they “actively loathe him?” Her father and uncle have a history but they were at Christmas dinner together. Obviously, everyone speaks to the grandmother in this situation and his sister was the one who threw the shower for her.

But that isn’t really the issue. Her uncle and wife were rude. If you don’t want to go to a wedding, don’t make different excuses for it, apologize, say you can’t make it for x reason and stick with it.

And if you don’t want to go to a shower, apologize, say you can’t make it for x reason, don’t lie about receiving an invitation at the last minute.

And if you’re upset about a check not being cashed, don’t bring up the issue, months later, at Christmas dinner. And after that, don’t tell the OP she’s
mean to your children as an excuse for being rude.

Look, I think the check issue could have been handled better. Cashing it, sending a polite thank you note and moving on would be ideal. That said, her father was the one who asked her to return the check. If she had cashed it, instead of returning it, she ran the risk of causing a rift with her father. It seems like a no-win situation for the OP.

I also get that you handled your wedding with the grace, forbearance and generosity befitting a queen but imagine if you had posted venting over some of the behavior of your guests and received these replies.

“Then my Dad called at the last minute to tell me he couldn’t make it, because his girlfriend hates my Mom.”

Don’t be a baby! I’m sure you knew that his girlfriend didn’t like your mom, what were you expecting?

“My Mom’s boyfriend’s little brat daughter spent the entire time making fun of my gay best friends and trashing my wedding.”

“Oh grow up! They’re just kids.”

“My Mom disparaged my religion to other guests and suddenly refused to witness the ceremony unless I agreed to pray with her.”

Bridezilla alert! A few minutes of prayer to the make the woman who gave birth to you happy, isn’t going to kill you.

“My grandmother and mother got into a passive aggressive snit with one another, to the point of scrapping over which one of them was going to stand beside me while I cut the cake, also because they absolutely despise one another.”

Man up! Some people leave their children in forests to die. You’re lucky you’ve got relatives willing to fight for the honor of standing next to you at your wedding.

Foot surgery isn’t exactly a cause for alarm (the 2nd excuse they gave). The OP said the church was 15 minutes away. The OP also said her uncle’s three
kids all drive. Would it be that hard for a couple of them or her uncle to drive over to witness the ceremony and then go back? I think her aunt would have survived.

And please, people who “fucking hate weddings” and find them “psychological torture” need to do some growing up themselves.

Again, where do you get that the OP hates these people? I don’t get that vibe at all. Nor do I get the vibe that she felt she was owed. She sounds like someone who thought enough of her relatives to invite them to her wedding and who was genuinely hurt that they weren’t even capable of bowing out graciously.

You’re reading a lot into the OP’s post that just isn’t there. Perhaps that’s the OP’s fault for not fully expanding on their family history or maybe it might be your fault because you’ve obviously got some family baggage going on and you’re conflating your experiences with the OP’s.

We will have to agree to disagree, then.

[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo]
So if you’re saying that the OP started this thread thinking that it would be like the others around here recently. Bummer. And sorry to hear it, but since she notes that she’s been lurking here for years, one might assume that she knows which forum to place her post. Pity parties go in MPSIMS, not the Pit.
[/QUOTE]

Whatever the rules of the Pit, there are a lot of posts similar to hers placed here both now and in the past. But it’s a mod’s job to decide these things, so why not let them worry about it instead of playing net nanny?

And with that, I’m off for champagne. Faithfool, I’m sorry about your recent troubles. I wish you and your husband nothing but the best for 2009. And Happy New Year’s to everyone!

65

You’re accusing me of being the net nanny when you’re the one trying to tell everyone else how they should respond to the OP?!! :rolleyes:

Either you started drinking way before you started this post or your reading comprehension is very poor. Since the parts of the post not addressed to me were written so poorly, I’ll go with the drinking.

But when you’re sober, go back and read my post again. It mentioned that this was the Christmas holiday so the threads you mentioned might have gotten by the mods unnoticed. But if you’re advocating that threads in the Pit can be just whiny little complaints like this one, you may be right. But then they’ll get the response you saw here, which you’re calling a pile-on. If that’s the case, why are you telling others how they should respond?

Please also note that I didn’t ask the mods to do anything different here. If I had wanted that, I would have reported it. I was just noting to you and the OP that if you want to get better treatment for a silly, whiny little complaint like this one, you’re probably better off in MPSIMS.

66

At least with Unc not showing up for the wedding, bridezilla can’t threaten to cut him out of her wedding pictures.

67

I am happy to pass this one off to the Lady Dopers. As an antisocial guy, especially one who doesn’t speak to family members he LIKES for months on end, I could never understand why anybody would build drama around a mere formality, like a wedding. You two were already united in spirit. The rest is an excuse for an unpleasant party.

Want a fun party? Invite your friends. Weddings are to make Mom less embarrassed you’re screwing some guy she doesn’t much care for.

68

Is anyone surprised that I entirely agree with valleyofthedolls? I don’t see your accusations of drunkenness as being at all valid except as an inept attempt to discredit an opinion that you don’t like. valleyofthedolls is calling out the folks in this thread for excessive harshness, which is a valid opinion whether you agree with it or not. I found her post truthful and thoughtful. If you can’t respond similarly, trying to diminish her ideas with false and rude characterizations isn’t doing your POV any credit.

She’s not telling others how to respond. She’s calling them on their out of proportion responses. That’s part of the given and take here, not an effort at censorship.

Wanting better treatment for the OP is not really the issue here. People are being really unnecessarily shitty, but that’s the nature of the Pit. You post something to vent, people give you shit, other people point out how shitty the other posters are, ad nauseum. I think maybe people are feeling tense around the holidays and wanted to kick the shit out of someone, so here it is. You think the OP is whiny and silly. That’s your opinion. You think it justifies the pile on, others don’t. To the OP, it’s her fucked up life. It sounds like it’s been painful for her. You don’t think so? Fine. That’s not a truth, it’s just your opinion. I’ll keep pointing this out to you until you get the difference.

So, you know, go to town. Be as mean to the OP as you feel her silly whining deserves, but when another poster calls you on it, don’t weasel out of it by making an entirely unwarranted ad hominem attack on the person who disagreed with you. That’s just poor rhetorical skills.

69

Thank you so much. I’m hopeful that sometime soon, his predicament will right itself and then all will be well with his (and by extension, mine) world. So yeah, go grab a glass of champagne and watch a horror movie for me. I know it’ll be a good one.

The best of new year’s to you too!

70

If the OP hates her uncle so much, why did she want him at her wedding?

So somebody who isn’t very close to her made an excuse to blow off her wedding. So what? Later on, his mom guilted him into sending a check, and this is somehow perceived as dredging up some kind of traumatic memory? I don’t get it. How is any of this injurious to the OP?

I’ve blown off weddings and totally lied about why. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Making up some bullshit excuse is just basic courtesy. He didn’t ask to be invited. Why should he have to be arsed to strain himself with a suitable excuse?

And what’s the deal with being insulted by a check? I have never in my life been insulted by someone sending me a check. Who gives a fuck WHY he sent it? He didn’t have to send it. Say thank you.

I’m kind of lost here as to what the uncle’s crime is supposed to be. It seems to me like the bride is just upset that somebody didn’t think her wedding was all that important. He sent her a check, but he’s not REALLY all excited for her. Boo hoo.

71

Why should anybody have to apologize for not wanting to go to a wedding?

72

Dio, you know I’m your buddy and all, so you will know I’m not trying to be rude when I say-- you didn’t read the thread very carefully if this is what you’ve come in to say. Also, your lack of comprehension of how weddings work is legendary, so, please, bear with me.

She doesn’t hate him. She seems, if I may venture a guess, saddened that his feud with her father had spilled over onto her, and that he was rude about how he went about it.

Well, the thing is, it’s not REALLY about the wedding. It’s about the family drama between the OP’s father and his brother, which has now involved the OP, the uncle’s wife, the kids, and Grandma. It’s a clusterfuck of awkwardness and unpleasantness, which wedding so often precipitate. I can understand the OP feeling surprised and hurt when her uncle, with whom she had OK relations, starts acting weird about avoiding her wedding.

Why indeed? Well, depends. Does he care about his niece? Does he want to be polite to her? Is he trying to be spiteful and passive-aggressively hurtful to his brother, the OP’s father? There is some motive here, because these are people who do care about each other, very much, though not always in constructive ways.

If you read through the thread, that bit’s been well covered.

That one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that her uncle, whom she loves but who is engaged in a feud with her father, is allowing that feud to affect his relationship with his niece, the OP. The form this is taking is in multiple excuse-making for non-attendance, failure to RSVP for the shower, a late gift sent due to Grandma’s guilt trip, and then a harassing phone call months later, when it should have been let go, to give the OP shit about not cashing the check, and being nicer to the kids, as justification for all the other rudeness. The OP has officially been sucked into the feud. Kudos to the uncle and dad for dragging her into it. I’m sure she needed that kind of drama added to her wedding.

See? It’s complicated family drama that the wedding merely catalyzes. That’s probably what the OP wanted to bitch about, with the wedding incidental, but posters see WEDDING, and a bride with a bitch, and they get all “bridezilla” on her like it’s a sport. Thus, she cannot get her rant on without taking some swipes. But she’s not really out of line for wanting to vent them. All she’d need is a sympathetic audience. I suggest livejournal.

73

All this discussion about how mean the uncle was for lying twice about his reasons for refusing to attend: perhaps if the family had just accepted he wasn’t coming instead of asking* Why, Why, Why?* the man wouldn’t have to keep his “I don’t want to hurt your feelings” white lies straight.

74

Yes, this, exactly. In U.S. society, a multibillion dollar industry has grown up around the idea of a woman’s wedding day as the most important day of her life, the one day that all eyes are on her, and where every detail of the different aspects of the day is a reflection on her taste, refinement, her level of affluence and to some extent, her general character. It’s all about her and her “dream” and some women freely admit that the wedding that they’re having at age 27, 29, 33 is the culmination of a fantasy they started spinning back when they were in high school and hoped that the groom would be the star quarterback or president of the student body.

But a woman dare not actually evidence any non-positive emotion surrounding something this huge and blown out of proportion ever or she’s a Bridezilla, which, if we’re honest, is just a nicer way of calling her a bitch. It’s a misogynistic, sexist construction of completely unrealistic expectations being foisted on women over top of the already completely unrealistic rubric of weddings in modern America. Screw that.

75

If you’re going to throw a party, be it a Superbowl party or a wedding, you’ll be a much better hostess if you focus on celebrating with the people who show up rather than worrying about the people who don’t. You’ll also save yourself a lot of aggravation and heartache if you’d stop microanalyzing people’s excuses. Sometimes the most implausible sounding excuses are the truth while the most plausible one are fibs. Bottom line is that no one should feel obligated to attend a social function that they don’t want to attend, and as a hostess you should accept their response at face value and go on with your life. Ascribing motives that may exist only in your head is both unfair and unkind.

And as others have said, keeping a check that was intended to assauge hurt feelings was petty. You don’t meet rudeness with rudeness. That’s how family feuds perpetuate.

In any event, you’re young (I assume) and have a lot to learn. In the future, you’ll be asked to attend a lot of parties and social events that you won’t want to attend. And you’ll understand that sometimes you’ll have to resort to fibs when your rehearsed “I’m so sorry, I have a prior engagement.” is met with an arched eyebrow.

76

See, now I’m getting upset. I tried to provide as much nuance to this argument as I could, to make it clear that I’m not labeling the OP anything nasty and that I can reasonably see both sides of the issue, and of all the confrontational, nasty posts in this thread you choose mine to jump all over?

The OP obviously has no love for her uncle’s family whatsoever, as indicated at least by referring to her aunt as his ‘‘bitch wife.’’

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
But that isn’t really the issue. Her uncle and wife were rude. If you don’t want to go to a wedding, don’t make different excuses for it, apologize, say you can’t make it for x reason and stick with it.

[/QUOTE]

I agreed rather emphatically that it’s rude to RSVP to an event and not show.

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
And if you’re upset about a check not being cashed, don’t bring up the issue, months later, at Christmas dinner. And after that, don’t tell the OP she’s
mean to your children as an excuse for being rude.
[/QUOTE]

I forget to cash gift checks all the time and it is perfectly normal to bring this up at a later event. The children comment is certainly rude. It does hint that the reason they didn’t show may have more to do with the OP than the OP’s father, or in the very least that their resentment is starting to seep into their relationship with their niece. Tragic, really.

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
Look, I think the check issue could have been handled better. Cashing it, sending a polite thank you note and moving on would be ideal. That said, her father was the one who asked her to return the check. If she had cashed it, instead of returning it, she ran the risk of causing a rift with her father. It seems like a no-win situation for the OP.
[/QUOTE]

Causing a rift with her father? Really? For not doing exactly what he told her to do with her own wedding gift? Then her father is an asshole and she’s got some growing up to do herself.

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
I also get that you handled your wedding with the grace, forbearance and generosity befitting a queen but imagine if you had posted venting over some of the behavior of your guests and received these replies.
[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t have. I would have posted it in MPSIMS. The idea that wedding threads by brides are not taken sympathetically at the Dope is a complete fabrication. I see them all the time, and they are almost universally met with sympathy. Something about the OP’s tone is rubbing people the wrong way.

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
“My Mom disparaged my religion to other guests and suddenly refused to witness the ceremony unless I agreed to pray with her.”

Bridezilla alert! A few minutes of prayer to the make the woman who gave birth to you happy, isn’t going to kill you.

“My grandmother and mother got into a passive aggressive snit with one another, to the point of scrapping over which one of them was going to stand beside me while I cut the cake, also because they absolutely despise one another.”

Man up! Some people leave their children in forests to die. You’re lucky you’ve got relatives willing to fight for the honor of standing next to you at your wedding.

[/QUOTE]

Nobody would say this to me.

I was out of line to compare the situations and imply the OP should in fact be grateful for what she has. I was in a shitty mood, sleep-deprived and high on morphine. I tried to edit the existing post but missed the window, so I posted a follow-up which I thought made it clear that I didn’t really advocate my previous comments. You are picking and choosing from my posts and conflating them with other people’s posts to invent a position for me that I don’t hold. I’ll bold it this time:

I don’t think the OP is an ungrateful Bridezilla, I think she may be taking something personally that is not personal.

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
And please, people who “fucking hate weddings” and find them “psychological torture” need to do some growing up themselves.
[/QUOTE]

There’s such a thing as social anxiety, you know. Or are psychological disorders not applicable to grown-ups?

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
You’re reading a lot into the OP’s post that just isn’t there. Perhaps that’s the OP’s fault for not fully expanding on their family history or maybe it might be your fault because you’ve obviously got some family baggage going on and you’re conflating your experiences with the OP’s.

[/QUOTE]

I think every single person in this thread is probably doing that. It’s human nature.

[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls]
And with that, I’m off for champagne. Faithfool, I’m sorry about your recent troubles. I wish you and your husband nothing but the best for 2009. And Happy New Year’s to everyone!
[/QUOTE]

Happy New Year!

tumbledown, not to get too off-topic, but have you ever read The Meaning of Wife? It’s a very interesting book that expands upon your premise in a thoughtful and enlightening way. I recommend it for all people considering marriage.

77

So I dug up all the venting-about-wedding threads I could find.

The Madness Begins (wedding expectations)

Dad won’t attend wedding and birth of grandchild. Don’t know how to react. Long and whiny.

My sister’s wedding is going to be perfect.

A wedding without dancing…unacceptable? Really?

Help me calm down about my upcoming wedding.

Should I write my Dad off? SUPER LONG!

Yeah, the Dopers sure are an unsupportive lot. Out for blood, we are.

78

No, I disagreed with several posters however they’re entitled to their own opinions much like you’re entitled to run around like an a net nanny.

[QUOTE=DropZone]
I am happy to pass this one off to the Lady Dopers. As an antisocial guy, especially one who doesn’t speak to family members he LIKES for months on end, I could never understand why anybody would build drama around a mere formality, like a wedding. You two were already united in spirit. The rest is an excuse for an unpleasant party.
[/QUOTE]

You’re an anti-social person who doesn’t care for family type functions and yet, you still felt compelled to post several nasty replies in this thread? Nice.

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Why should anybody have to apologize for not wanting to go to a wedding?
[/QUOTE]

It goes something like this:

“I’m sorry but I can’t make it to [insert social function here]”

or

“I’m sorry but I can’t make it to [insert social function here], I have other plans”

The “I’m sorry” part is the apology. You really needed that explained to you?

[QUOTE=PunditLisa]
If you’re going to throw a party, be it a Superbowl party or a wedding, you’ll be a much better hostess if you focus on celebrating with the people who show up rather than worrying about the people who don’t. You’ll also save yourself a lot of aggravation and heartache if you’d stop microanalyzing people’s excuses. Sometimes the most implausible sounding excuses are the truth while the most plausible one are fibs. Bottom line is that no one should feel obligated to attend a social function that they don’t want to attend, and as a hostess you should accept their response at face value and go on with your life. Ascribing motives that may exist only in your head is both unfair and unkind.
[/QUOTE]

And again, this is not what the OP was describing. She was doing some venting because some relatives behaved rudely and then decided to resurrect this
family drama over Christmas (which only a few days long ago). Where did the OP say these relatives were obligated to attend? Where did she ascribe any motives to their behavior?

79

Yeah, I do. What does the invitee have to be sorry about?

I think the only one making a drama out of it is the OP. Blowing off a wedding invitation with a made up excuse (even if it’s a changing excuse) is no drama, and sending a check along later is not “resurrecting” anything.

I see both of those things as just basic good manners.

80

It’s a social nicety. You’re sorry that you’re disappointing the host/ess by not being at their event. Even if you don’t care about disappointing the person, not acknowledging their response in this fashion is impolite.

The changing excuses were a drama because they were untruths (hence the changing) based upon other untruths (not receiving the invitation in a timely fashion, not knowing the date) that all parties involved knew were untrue at the time. When someone lies to you and you know they’re lying and they know they’re lying, and they’re hurting your feelings in the bargain, it’s not an unimportant thing, especially when they’re family.

And it wasn’t the sending of the check that was the resurrection, it was bringing the matter up again, at Christmas, one week ago, when all of this went down several months ago, in the springtime, that was resurrecting. The only reason to ask about the check now, in December, was to poke at what was obviously a wound. That was bitchy behavior on the part of the aunt. Not good manners. And the aunt’s intent wasn’t pure, or she wouldn’t have stuck in that little dig about the OP being treated disfavorably because she was allegedly not nice to her (late teen/adult, because they’re all driving age) cousins at some point in her life.