I have a Great Uncle who has a son “A”. Is son “A” my first cousin? Also, son “A” had a son “B”. Is son “B” my second cousin? (Surely, this cannot work the same as if it were my Uncle’s child and grandchild. Is this a “once removed” type of thingy?)
Having so many cousins, I never got the family tree thing…
There’s a chart on the Wikipedia entry for cousin that says A would be your first cousin once removed.
“Removed” means you’re in different generations. Since your great grandfather would be A’s grandfather, that means there’s one generation between you - so, once removed. Count back the shortest line until you find siblings, and that’s how you know what degree of cousinship you share - in this case, your great uncle is the sibling of your great grandparent, which is only one step back from A, making you first cousins, once removed. A’s child would be your second cousin, and A’s grandchild would be your second cousin once removed. Your child would be A’s first cousin twice removed, and your grandchild would be A’s first cousin three times removed.
“A” is your first cousin, once removed. “B” is your second cousin.
your great uncle is your father’s or mother’s uncle. So their children are your father’s or mother’s cousins. And you are one generation later.
Check out that chart Dewey Finn referenced. In general, level of cousin = how far “up” you have to go to find a common “sideways” connection, how far “down” below your generation you go is the “removed” part. As the chart shows, though, the situation gets weird when considering the area “above your generation” before making the common connection on your cousins “leg.” Frankly, I think this way of defining cousins was ill-conceived, but we’re stuck with it.
Note that (as I understand it) not only is A your first cousin once removed, but you are his first cousin once removed. So the term “first cousin once removed” means both that “the son or daughter of a first cousin” and “the first cousin of one’s father or mother.” The term “once removed” thus means “one generation up or down from.” Similarly, the term “twice removed” means “one generation up or down from.”
Excuse me, ignore the previous post. Here’s what I meant to say:
Note that (as I understand it) not only is A your first cousin once removed, but you are his first cousin once removed. So the term “first cousin once removed” means both “the son or daughter of a first cousin” and “the first cousin of one’s father or mother.” The term “once removed” thus means “one generation up or down from.” Similarly, the term “twice removed” means “two generations up or down from.”
Who came up with the retarded system that tells you how many generations apart you are, but not which direction? I have two first cousins once removed, and one should be some sort of a nephew the other some sort of an uncle – it’s utterly not helpful that they have the same relationship to me in English. Something about “cousin” spanning more than one generation is damn wrong.
What’s so retarded about it?
Whether the remove is up or down doesn’t really tell you anything of import. My father’s cousins are as related to me as my cousin’s children. It doesn’t even tell you their age relative to you - my father has first cousins who are 10 years younger than me. He has another one who’s approximately the same age as me, who regularly forgets that they’re cousins, and calls my father ‘Uncle <name>’.
So, I guess I’m asking what information the specific generation carries for you.
Well I grew up with a language that had different terminology for kinship:
You have a father, mother, grandfathers, grandmothers, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews. granddaughters and grandsons. To move higher up or higher down in the generational line there’s a prefix for grand__ that can be multiplied, just like in English “great” or “great great”.
There is also modifier words that shift one sideways (and sideways only) on the family true. What literally is “Second kin sister” is first cousin. Her children, would be “second kin nieces” and “second kin nephews”, and to them you are their “second kin uncle” or “second kin aunt”. Your great uncle is simply “second kin grandfather”.
Basically my problem is not with the entire system, but with first and second cousins. Some people (like me) are distant, so it’s not that important, but a lot of people in the US are as close to their first cousins as they are to their own siblings. However, when their siblings have kids, they become aunts and uncles. When their first cousins have kids they suddenly have more cousins. Just like it would be weird for you if your relationship with your grandmother was reflexive (like it is in some cultures, she’s your grandrelative and you’re hers grandrelative, and you address each other using the same word), it’s weird for me that a cousin can have a child or a parent that’s also your cousin.
I forgot about the ‘retarded’ part. The retarded part is that it is not consistent: If you are going to have a unisex term for cousin and a reflexive relationship with their children, same should be applied to your siblings (zeroth cousins), but I’m latching on on to being a second uncle and a second nephew just as hard as you would latch on to being an uncle or a nephew.