Fat Bashing and Sizeism

The BBQ Pit
241

Well, you’re right, I misread the thread of commentary.

However in re the price of fruit in Wichita, it does indeed matter my dear. Global market and all that. Which is an indirect manner of observing that the life of a single mother in Philly -besides the misfortune of living in Penn. about which we can do nothing- is not so unique, say compared to the life of a family of 8 in Marrakech who all work petty jobs with long hours and far less disposable income than the single mother. Similarly constraints on time, similar constraints on flexibility. Not starving by any means, but the habits, the patterns of consumption, the fact they walk and burn more calories are diff. (Or in the alternative, a similar family in Paris suburbs).

American lifestyle breeds fatness. It takes a modicum of discipline to overcome, but changes are possible. Excuse making merely allows one to rationalize the soda drinking, the burger eating etc.

Bloody culture of excuse making

242

And as an example of the same:

Straw man.

There is no ‘forgiveness’ to ask. Action to be taken, recognition of discipline etc. Forgiveness, I could give a fuck if you are fat, unless you are next to me on a plane.

Support? what the fuck are you talking about. I have never mocked a fat person in my life, I am always supportive of those truly working on exercise and rational caloric management. I know what a bloody pain such is, as I move into middle age, and as too many business lunches kick in, I have to work on my fitness, and frankly I find it boring. Boring. Pain in the ass.

However, I am not going to make excuses - take the bull by the horns and look into managing my lifestyle. Long hours still have to be worked, so I cut out calories, etc.

In that context, and seeing how Americans, fat bastards that they are, constantly find excuses, I grow irritated. Every other obese person I met back in the States assures me they have “fat genes” or some other external excuse. It’s bloody excuse making.

243

No, it’s not at all a straw man. The harsh judgmental attitude of yours illustrates exactly what I’m talking about.

You’re missing what I’m saying. Yes of COURSE if someone is saying “oh, it’s just my genes” and never even tries, but yet wants to be fit and constantly whines about it then they need to either accept that themselves the way they are, or do something about it. But even then, if that’s the way they are, so what? Everyone has faults.

When I say support, I say don’t put thoughts into someone’s head. I don’t know how many fat people you met, so that "every other fat person blames it on his or her genes, but as a fitness instructor at a local university, that’s NOT what I hear from overweight people.

What I’m talking about is that when people explain how they got that way in the first place and then are unsuccessful with trying to lose weight and people will get all harsh and judgmental.

I’ve seen it (granted rarely, because they get ran out very quickly) in the online weight loss support group to which I belong. We have people in there who are trying to lose weight and are new and come in to ask questions about this or that workout, or are unsure about portion sizes, recipes etc.

And some food Nazi, instead of saying something to the effect of “well, that’s probably not the best choice, you will need to substitute item “a” with item “b,” it has X amount fewer fat grams and X amount more protein grams,” we’ll get someone who starts in with a “God, that’s SHIT, no wonder you aren’t having any luck this week, Garbage in=garbage out, get a CLUE”!!! etc.

When a person is new, and just starting to realize that yes, they got themselves into this mess and now they need to get themselves OUT of it, when they say “I don’t know what to do, my lfe is really stressful, how can I lose weight”?

That’s NOT equivelant to “oh I just quit” or “oh, it’s just genes”.

They do NOT need some “hipper than thou” Mr. Perfect Body shouting “bloody excuse making” at them. That’s NOT a solution, it’s just blaming.

For many of these people saying “my life is really stressful, I don’t have time to work out or prepare proper meals” requires an answer along the lines of “here’s the answer, here’s how you schedule a successful program and eating lifestyle into your life”.

So, they might be saying this in a frustrated voice, so they aren’t “asking” in the way that skinny people think is the “right” way. So they might be whining a little or even a lot. It’s an emotional issue.

They probably ARE frustrated, but their concerns are valid. To put thoughts into their head and translate their words of “my lifestyle is stressful, that’s how I got fat, and how I’ve stayed fat” into them meaning that they expect that to be an excuse for them to not do anything about it is to make a sweeping blanket generalization about them.

And yeah, some people do just want to whine, but many others truly are stuck and their complaints that “nothing works” are honest, heartfelt, but probably helpless feeling, requests for help. They just don’t know what to ask or where to start.

I have lots of students say just those sorts of things to me. Like “I have kids, and I have no money to buy lots of fancy diet foods or a gym membership, or workout equipment”. I know from experience that they’re not saying "oh, I just want you to say there there and tell me that I don’t have to do anything, and of course I couldn’t be expected to lose weight under those circumstances.

I know that the words often come from frustration brought on in most cases by years of failure.

What the hell good is it going to do either the overweight person OR the person hearing them if they just get yelled at and accused of making excuses all the time?

What helps is guiding them to know HOW they can get around the things that caused them to get fat in the first place. Not blaming and hateful attitudes.

An analogy might be my inability to do math (algebra). I am really bad at it. I know that several years ago I had a math tutor who somehow made it click for me. Then I graduated, and started working and didn’t use it for many years and when I went back to school to finish my degree and had to take an algebra course, I had a hell of a hard time.

I need to “find the way” that will make sense to me. It doens’t mean that I don’t WANT to do well at algebra. But unlike most people, my wires are crossed in that area. I’m not unwilling, but I am emotional about it, if you were my tutor, you’d probably find me tearful as I struggled to learn parts of it.

But none of my bitching, crying or complaining about it no matter HOW discouraged or whiny I sound means “I can’t do math, I should therefore be excused from it etc etc”.

244

Okay…so back to the OP.

If some extremely obese person sits next to you, plops some excess girth onto your lap and says, “I am obese because I eat what I want and when I want, and my goal is to be crushed by my own weight”, is it okay to be pissed?

If some extremely obese person sits next to you, plops some excess girth onto your lap and but explains, “I just got tested at the Obese Research Center, and they discovered that despite my excellent aerobic regiment and nutritionally dense and low 1800 calorie per day diet, I cannot squeeze my self under 400 lbs”, is it okay to be pissed?

245

Strangely enough, even gyms seem to encourage people to use excuses. How many people here belong to Bally Fitness? EVERY SINGLE TIME I go in there, they have a CD running, encouraging customers to buy their products. Here’s what it sounds like:

“Do you have a friend who can eat anything she wants without gaining a pound, while you just look at food and feel your waistline expanding? Don’t worry - it’s not YOU - it’s your METABOLISM! Using our Bally Fitness products will help you reach your weight loss goals.”

Every time I hear that, it really pisses me off. Yes, metabolism does to some extent affect weight loss. If you speed up your metabolism slightly by exercise, you will burn calories faster and more efficiently. However, I feel that ads like this are encouraging people to think “Oh, so it’s my metabolism that’s the problem! Well, if I drink these protein shakes, I can eat whatever I want and still lose weight.” Many people actually gain weight on these shakes because they aren’t instructed that to lose weight, they have to eat less when they drink the shakes.

I will admit that Bally Fitness does encourage people to work out while they’re taking these shakes (they’re a gym - they’ve gotta), but I think an advertisement saying “Don’t worry - it’s not YOU - it’s your METABOLISM” is very misleading. It automatically gives people a scapegoat.

246

This is an example of why I don’t like the fitness industry. Bally’s does this because it sells, and if people don’t lose weight, it keeps them as customers. It’s a general problem–if a company helps you to get in shape, then you don’t need their products anymore. Where’s their incentive to actually be useful?

247

First off, I’m not mad here, just intrigued and interested in this debate, I hope I didn’t come off as angry. I’m just passionate about this subject, since I try to be one of the “good guys (girls)” when in comes to helping people with their weight issues.

Actually the airline thing is another thread, the OP of this thread was fat bashing and sizism overall and was only inspired by the “fat airline”. Also, while I understand your point, it’s not what either I or many others in this thread have been talking about. People who are taking up more than what they paid for, whether in an airline seat, or concert seat or what have you is covered in the fat airline thread. But to answer your question, if someone of any size infringes upon your personal space, you have a right to be upset about it.

What many of us in this thread have been talking about is the attitude with which obese people are viewed, that is, just in everyday life, and without them infringing upon someone else’s personal space. That’s a separate issue, and can happen whether a person is overweight or not.

I’d be interested in knowing what prompted the “every other obese person” Collunsbury talked to to respond to him with “it’s my genes”. Coll. did you ASK them why they were overweight? Did they just volunteer the information with no prompting whatsoever? Did they volunteer it because of being stared at or from being the target of “disapproving” looks?

This is actually a different, though related, issue. Okay, so, the person is obese. How is confronting them and getting angry (disgusted or whatever) at their spoken reason for being obese going to solve anything?

How 'bout this analogy. Person A and person B get in an auto accident. It’s 100% person B’s fault.

Scenario 1:

Person A gets out of his car and proceeds to yell, scream and act every nasty way he can think of toward person B.

How do you think person B is going to react? Do you think he/she is going to hang his/her head and meekly submit to that sort of abuse?

Not likely. When confronted with that sort of behaviour, person B is likely to get VERY defensive. B is likely to make excuses for his fault, not admit to it.

And what is the reasoning or usefulness of Person A being an asshole about it? Does it “fix” the accident? No.

Now, same scenario, only this time Person A gets out of his car and enters into the sacred exchange of insurance papers as is proper. Person B and Person A part civilly.

Person B knows, in BOTH scenarios that he is at fault. But the second one is the one that is the most successful scenario.

The same with confronting an obese person. If they are confronted with ugly nasty disapproving stares, or downright rudeness it’s only human nature that they are going to feel and act defensive.

Do those of you touting this “they’re lazy excuse makers” attitude REALLY think that they are NOT aware of their size and weight? Or that they need to be told, or scolded etc?

248

I have another related question.

Why do so many guys seem to take “fat chicks” as though they were some sort of personal affront or insult to the guys?

Some guys (ala Tom Leykis) act as if fat chicks are somehow taking something away from them or something.

I mean, if you don’t like fat chicks, don’t date them, why act as if they are somehow infringing upon your dating rights or something?

Just curious, our radio station that used to carry Tom Leykis went broke so we no longer get it, and I was always curious about the poisonous hatred of “fat chicks” on that show, and that that same attitude was echoed out in the “real world” as well.

249

Well, do you want them to start or not? And as a fitness instructor, let me tell you, by the time many obese people have yo-yo’ed for 5, 10 15+ years, it IS, in part, their metabolism.

Yeah, when they started gaining weight, it was them. But years of yo-yoing does mess up your metabolism and there is nothing wrong with a jump start with some of the supps to get a person energized and on the right track.

And what is wrong with making people feel a little bit better about the state they’ve gotten themselves into? IF it spurs them to go to the gym and to learn proper workout techniques and fueling? (I’m not talking about those that point to the ads and say see? I can’t lose weight, and never have been during the course of this thread).

So WHAT if they’re egos get to be a bit protected by “it’s not you, it’s your metabolism”? If it helps them get started, whats it TO you?

Damn, can we cut SOME of these people SOME slack here?

250

Ok Canvas - now you’re getting carried away - overlyverbose wasn’t complaining about people using Bally products, s/he was complaining about Bally’s misleading advertising tactics, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Bravo that people use the products - it’s just sleezy for Bally to use sneaky ads.

251

Grr, answered you and it was eaten.

Yes, I reread her (His?) post, you’re right it was against the Bally’s ad. I misread it as more of the same “no excuse will do” type stuff I’ve been seeing here.

Sorry overlyverbose.

252

what you’ve been bloody obsessing about to the exlcusion of reason actually.

I never ask anyone why they are what they are because frankly, I could give a fuck, it’s their fucking problem not mine. However the fat idjits in the States to whom I referred who volunteer excuses for whatever reason seem to love to have recourse to bloody goddamned excuses.

If they volunteered the info because they perceive they’re being stared at or whatever hangups, that’s their bloody problem and not mine. I’m not about psychoanalyzing

Who ever said I have gotten angry with the excuse making fools? That’s your projecting your obsessions on me.

If someone wants to make excuses rather than work on an issue, that’s their problem, not mine. Now if someone argues that the reason Americans are so bloody fat as compared with the rest of the world is because of genes or any other series of stupid goddamned excuses, then I will tear that argument to shreds, but frankly I don’t care to know about other people’s personal problems so I do not engage any of the person ref’d to in such convos. Fat relatives and friends can be as they are, as long as they don’t fuck with me. Free world and all that.

253

Well, you sound very angry and very confrontational about this issue.

254

Angry and confrontational for me requires a great deal of swearing, this is simply moderately annoyed.

I am mildly irritated by hand waving excuse making about ‘Sizeism’ in this thread in particula.

255

No worries. No offense was taken. I do agree with you - if someone needs a jump-start and is informed on how to use the products correctly, such as drinking a protein shake for breakfast, as opposed to eating an Egg McMuffin, gym supplements can be a great way to get off a plateau or get started losing weight while consuming actual nutrients instead of salt, sugar & fat. While I’ve never really tried things like that to lose weight, my sister has, and they really seemed to work for her.

I’ve always wondered, though - what’s the difference between gym products and other types of weight-loss solutions? Obviously, a lot of weight loss pills & powders are gimmicks. I’ve always thought Hydroxycut was a gimmick because the people advertising it seem to have no idea how it works. Either that or it sounds as though they’re making stuff up to make it sound scientific. It’s very easy to lump products such as Bally Fitness sells with things like Hyroxycut. How are those products marketed by places like gyms & GNC better than the gimmicks? Is it because they’re safer? Maybe because people marketing them (personal trainers, consultants, etc.) are better informed and actually know what is in the products and how they work? Or maybe because they indicate that proper diet & exercise must be observed in conjunction with using the products to actually lose weight?

I’m honestly curious, and have never had the opportunity to ask anyone. I guess I could ask the people at the gym, but I’ve always been worried that if I ask, they’ll try to make me buy.

P.S. - Sorry for the hijack!

256

quote:

Originally posted by CanvasShoes
What many of us in this thread have been talking about is the attitude with which obese people are viewed, that is, just in everyday life, and without them infringing upon someone else’s personal space. That’s a separate issue, and can happen whether a person is overweight or not.

what you’ve been bloody obsessing about to the exlcusion of reason actually.

Please explain, this statement makes no real sense.
quote:

I’d be interested in knowing what prompted the “every other obese person” Collunsbury talked to to respond to him with “it’s my genes”. Coll. did you ASK them why they were overweight? Did they just volunteer the information with no prompting whatsoever? Did they volunteer it because of being stared at or from being the target of “disapproving” looks?

I never ask anyone why they are what they are because frankly, I could give a fuck, it’s their fucking problem not mine. However the fat idjits in the States to whom I referred who volunteer excuses for whatever reason seem to love to have recourse to bloody goddamned excuses.

The reason I ask is because in another post you said that “every other obese person you met” said that it was their genes. I was just curious as to how they came to feel compelled to tell you that.

Again, not asking you to “psychoanalyze” anyone, just wondering under what circumstances all these obese people told you that they were obese due to their genes.

Your whole premise in this thread seems to be that “most, if not all” obese people just make excuses for their weight, and your tone is that that’s unacceptable etc etc etc.
quote:

This is actually a different, though related, issue. Okay, so, the person is obese. How is confronting them and getting angry (disgusted or whatever) at their spoken reason for being obese going to solve anything?

Who ever said I have gotten angry with the excuse making fools? That’s your projecting your obsessions on me.

Just the way you’ve said the things you’ve said. “bloody excuse making” and some of the other phrases you’ve used sound pretty intolerant, angry and accusatory.

First of all, no one in this thread has said that it IS genetics, or that it’s mostly genetics or whatever. YOU are the one who keeps bringing that up and claiming that most obese people use that as an excuse.

As I’ve said, I’m a PE teacher, not one of my overweight students has said it’s genetics or glandular.

If you’re not angry, fine. But with your constant “bloody excuse making” and “it’s NOT genetic, it’s people making excuses and WANTING to be fat and lazy” type comments, you are going way off in left field and bringing up something that none of the rest of us in this thread have said.

257

Actually, they didn’t. 20 years ago, there wasn’t much paranoia, I guess. Please note that I have absolutely no political stance regarding weight at all, nor of anything else. I just thought that it was a funny story. The person that took me to the airport was a woman that weighs over 440 pounds, and I love her to death. I’m sorry to have ruined your rational debate. I really could care less about the issue. I won’t bother continuing. Please don’t let any of this upset you.

258

I lost 15 lbs and quite a few inches in 2 months by eating and drinking MORE than usual. Instead of the 1-2 sugar/carbohydrate laden meals (typical teenage “I need to starve to lose weight” mentality), fatty snacks, and maybe 16-30 oz of sugary juices I would consume per day, I ate 5-6 small meals (sometimes diet bars, other times consisting of little saturated fat, lots of veggies/lean meats, and little to no sugar and carbs) and drank 50-64 oz. of pure water per day. Previously, I didn’t exercise. I sat inside all day. I started to do an hour of Pilates a day for 5 days, weight trained 3 days a week, and did cardio as much as I could. It was cheap, it was healthy, it worked. I realize some people don’t have such luck, but a lot of people who have as much weight to lose as I do go to stupid and expensive extremes to lose it. Most of the time, all they need do is work at it.

259

I lost 15 lbs and quite a few inches in 2 months by eating and drinking MORE than usual. Instead of the 1-2 sugar/carbohydrate laden meals (typical teenage “I need to starve to lose weight” mentality), fatty snacks, and maybe 16-30 oz of sugary juices I would consume per day, I ate 5-6 small meals (sometimes diet bars, other times consisting of little saturated fat, lots of veggies/lean meats, and little to no sugar and carbs) and drank 50-64 oz. of pure water per day. Previously, I didn’t exercise. I sat inside all day. I started to do an hour of Pilates a day for 5 days, weight trained 3 days a week, and did cardio as much as I could. It was cheap, it was healthy, it worked. I realize some people don’t have such luck, but a lot of people who have as much weight to lose as I do go to stupid and expensive extremes to lose it. Most of the time, all they need do is work at it.

260

I didn’t think it went through the first time, but I want to amend something I wrote.

I, in no way, implied that 15 lbs. is a lot of weight to lose, lest anyone interpret that. I simply meant “…a lot of people who have the same amount of weight to lose as I do go…”