Fat Bashing and Sizeism

Whether or not “most” or even ANY overweight people have eating disorders, the answer to their weight problem is STILL NOT an oversimplified “eatlessexercisemore”.

It’s great that dropping a few meals a week, and adding a 3x20 min workout works for Fin man, Indygrrl and a few others who’ve posted here.

Again, whether or NOT overweight people have eating disorders, this kindof simplicistic “advice” is NOT suitable, efficient or successful for many overweight people.

And AGAIN, I am not saying that just because it requires more information and perhaps a bit more effort that overweight people should, or should not do something about their weight, I’m saying that the “eat less, exercise more” philosophy is only successful in SOME cases.

In many many others, it takes some “trickery” to the overweight person’s body in the form of revving up the metabolism, weight training etc.

o!

hehe, my first whoosh.

because they are making the effort to help themselves. They aren’t sitting on their asses writing posts on how oppressed their self-inflicted handicap has made them, they are struggling to make a positive change. They have to overcome, what for me would be overwhelming self-consciousness to be there in the first place. I give them the same respect as the guy in the wheelchair who has better arms than I do, or the skinny kid struggling with the smallest weights. It’s sunny outside. I’m going running.

When I saw the title of this thread it seemed to me it would be a defense of obesity, a recognition of the problems that fat people experience. How strange that the content is, by and large, so simplistic and judgmental.

I won’t presume to speak for every person with a weight problem, nor will I deny that many obese people are unattractive; and yes, it’s very unpleasant and inappropriate for someone to occupy your personal space.

And I skipped a page of posts b/c my blood was starting to boil, so please excuse me if these points have been made. But know this:

When you make fun of a fat kid, know that you’re possibly mocking a lonely child who turned to food because his/her family was cold and unresponsive, someone who has no friends. Perhaps a child who was blessed with cerebral talents but lacks athleticism, who’s mocked on the playing field and dreads recess because s/he lacks coordination.

That obese person who seems to be a slob could be practicing poor eating habits because s/he never learned to take care of themselves, never learned that they were worthy of care. Who hates their flawed body anyway. And possibly hates themselves. Who feels that instant sugar rush from fast foods and doesn’t realize that they’re on an insulin high that will soon crash, increasing their depression.

The fat chick you see might be someone who struggles with bulimia. That’s an eating disorder similar to alcoholism, consisting of an overwhelming urge to eat, a desperate, panicked stuffing of food that has no flavor or texture, combined with body abuse such as vomiting, laxatives, or compulsive exercise. She might have dieted successfully for years, on 900 calories per day, so that her metabolism now works with amazing efficiency, turning every excess calorie to fat. Was she really a better person at 95 lbs. than 175?

He might be the funniest, kindest, most thoughtful person on earth and someone whose family has a tradition of obesity and shame. Some people abuse food for psychological reasons that stem from deep pain, rejection, fear - issues that they can’t deal with alone. They’re not doing it to get on your nerves.

Just this week I’ve been reading about nutrition vis a vis perimenopause and I suspect in a few years we’ll all know much more about the hormonal effects of the foods we eat. Magnesium shortages lead to a craving for sweets; low-fat diets emphasize starches, which (for some people at least) leads to a blood sugar roller coaster, mood swings, and powerful food cravings; fats in our food have a stabilizing effect, but they need to be the right fats. What you see as a weak obese person might be the result of a hormonal imbalance, not a character flaw.

It’s true that a person has to take responsibility for their weight themselves, and it’s also true that a person has to exercise. But just because you managed to drop a few pounds don’t assume that someone else’s burden is similar to your own. Because it’s not.

Unattractiveness? Making fun of fat kids?

I suggest you do read the rest of the thread, and find out what it’s about.

To expand on Coldfires post (RE: Obese Americans), I’ve noticed this as well. However, what I find even more interesting (in my feeble mind), is that while Canadian and American society is for all intents and purposes (IMHO), virtually identical, my WAG is that you will see over twice as many “obese” Americans in say, a shopping mall than Canadians.

Why is that?

There are more Americans than Canadians. :smiley:

Seriously, I don’t think that the fast food mentality is anywhere near as prevalent in Canadian society as it is in America. That alone could explain it.

…after reading cainxinth’s opening post I might have gone into flashbacks…
…right rant, wrong thread? 'cause I still hate those smug fuckers…

Sorry fessie - you should probably read the rest of the thread.

OK, I read the whole thread.

Philster needs an enema with a pickaxe. Lots of reasons, but he just needs one. Maybe they can find his head up there. They won’t need to look for a heart.

Now, the burning question about intake versus weightloss.

No cites, only my life.

I have always eaten less that others. I have always weighed more than others. When I was in college, my doctor put me on 800 calories a day and I gained weight. We went to 400 calories a day. (Poached eggwhite, melba toast, lettuce with no dressing and 4 ounces of boiled chicken.) I gained weight.

He put me in the hospital on clear liquids for a month. I gained weight. The staff decided I must have cheated, I agreed to another month IN AN ACCESS CONTROLLED ROOM with nothing but water. I neither lost nor gained, once I had a Lasix shot to get rid of the water weight. I worked out daily while hospitalized.

That was 30 years ago. In the ensuing 30 years, my weight has gone up and down, eventually ending more up than down. I have always done physical labor. (Floral design may not seem to be that physical, but 8 to 14 hours a day on your feet, carrying buckets of flowers, boxes of greens, etc. IS physical labor. So is the mileage walked to do all this stuff. And when I was importing flowers, I loaded and unloaded boxes of flowers…40 to 100 pounds at a time, 20 to 500 boxes a day.)

I’m 5’6" tall. And right now, I weigh over 400 pounds. I can and do still work. I have mobility issues tied more to the cancer that I have had for the last eight years (diagnosed, possibly 10-30 years before that.) I still walk, even distances, but not easily, as it causes a carcinoid crisis.

The rare cancer I have does weird things to one…digestive-system kinda weird. Constant diahrreah. Dumping syndrome. Yadd yadda…has NOT affected my weight.

2 years ago, they took out half my stomach because of a tumor the size of a dinnerplate on my liver and stomach. Nothing by mouth, NOT EVEN WATER, for 3 weeks. Lost no weight. None. Nada. Zip.

The cancer hospital sent me to the leading endocrinologist in the area. Lots of testing, lots of reassurances that we could do something about the weight. Did bloodtests. Got a letter saying that there was nothing that could be done. Leptin levels over 60. Looked into leptin. Hmmm…this might be the key.

So here I am, over 400 pounds, with horrible arthritis. IN MY HANDS AND UPPER BACK, not my legs or knees. Can’t eat a lot of things, don’t “retain” most of what I do eat. Been anemic for 35 years. Weird cancer ( www.carcinoid.org for the curious) and can’t lose a pound, and if I lose a few by eating what I want when I want it, I will gain it back.

Somebody wanna tell me how undisciplined and lazy I am?? Some smart person out there have an answer??

The medical community is waiting for your unbounded wisdom. And there are more of us (metabolism totally screwed) that you can imagine.

FWIW, I really don’t want Philster to have an enema with a pickaxe. Call Roto-rooter instead.

Wow, thatDDperson, you’ve had a whole lot of bad luck thrown your way. Seriously, that sucks beyond belief. I wouldn’t call you lazy or undisciplined in a million years.

But… a doctor put you on a diet of nothing but water, for a month? Where was this? I’m no doctor or biologist, but that sounds highly dangerous for any human physique, small or large!

I strongly disagree that this “simplified scenario” needs to be pointed out. I bet there’s not an overweight American who does NOT know that their diet is at least partly to blame. They do NOT need to have that fact “pointed out” to them.

Knowing the problem doesn’t usually assist with the weight loss for a lot of overweight people, particularly those who have tried several times and failed. It does NOT somehow magically imbue them with the ability to put that knowledge SUCCESSFULLY to work for them so that they CAN lose weight.

Posters who keep stating that diet is to blame etc are really really stating the obvious here, and ignoring the fact that even though overweight people alREADY know the problem, that alone does not help them lose the fat.

And for those who say “well, I just skip a few meals, cut down on my beers and w/o 20 mins 3x per week”. This is SOOOOO not a blanket answer for every overweight person.

For THAT, in a huge number of cases, a much more aggressive and “body tricking” program needs to be used.

Explaining that it takes much more than the oversimplistic “eat less, exercise more” mantra for success, is NOT to say “well, let’s just not do anything”.

I wasn’t talking to all overweight Americans when I presented that simplified scenario, CanvasShoes. I was particularly talking to those who suggested that when one has never dealt with obesity either personally or professionally, one’s opinions are invalid. If everybody takes that approach, Collounsbury’s remarks about an excuse culture are dead on.

I have a question. I think what I’m hearing from some of you is that “cutting down on calories and increasing exercise” will not help you lose weight. Is this true?

I mean, if you really did cut down your calories, say to about 1800 a day and exercised (actual cardiovascularish) 3 times a week for, let’s say, 2 months that you wouldn’t lose weight?

Because I guess there’s the rare exception, but I believe it would work for most folks.

But if you acknowledge that this works and for some other reason (either psychological reasons or inability to exercise) cannot do it…those are the people that I feel for the most.

But, if you’re trying to convince me that the above doesn’t work in most cases of obesity, I ain’t buyin’ it.

Anyone whose BMR is above 1800 calories a day would lose primarily muscle on this plan, which would slow down their metabolism.

Add to that the fact that heavy people can develop knee problems from most cardio work, and you see why it might not be so desirable.

cite?

And I’m willing to forgo the cardiovascular for walking, and not just a bit…2 miles or so…

And also, please note my acknowledgement that sometimes it’s harder for obese people to exercise.

I understand that, but the thing is, that you (collective you) don’t KNOW just looking at a person into which category they fall. You don’t know how many times that 400 pound person has tried and failed at diets and exercise before you came along and saw him eating fries. (again, collective you). So, what we have is the judgmental defining the fat as an “excuse culture”. (not meaning you Cold, this attitude is prevelant among the not fat, or never fat).

And there have been at least 10 posts in here stating the “mindless mantra” (whoever said that, good one!), of “eat less, exercise more”.

Your statement just seemed to be an extension of that. And again, I think that most overweight people Americans or not, are well aware of how they GOT that way. And as someone else said, even if you DO see a fat person eating fries, you (again collective) do NOT know where they are in their weight loss progress. You might see a 400 pounder eating fries, but that 400 pounder might have, over the preceding 6 months lost 75 pounds, and perhaps his french fries are a once a month treat.

No one was saying that “you aren’t fat so you can’t know what it’s like” is tantamount to an excuse to blame everything BUT the overweight person themselves.

What is meant by that is that “you aren’t fat, and haven’t lived through 20 years of failures, so you can’t know”. Also, saying that a non overweight person doesn’t know what it’s like to struggle, is NOT the same as saying “therefore we can’t lose weight and should just get to be fat”.

The harsh judgmental attitude is NOT a solution. Stating the obvious is NOT a solution.

If a person has tried several times, sometimes for years, and failed, they need something OTHER than to be judged, or told that it’s all their fault, regardless of whether that’s true.

This is fairly common knowledge. But if you want a cite, here you go. Krista’s generally regarded as being fairly knowledgeable–you’ll find links to her site on many weight-training related sites.

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Well, depending on how obese a person is, even a quarter mile may be out of the question. Walking enough to break a sweat, and gradually increasing the amount, is what you’d have to do.

Also, I suspect that walking/cardiovascular exercise is a great way to stay in shape, but not all that hot at getting you there.

**

Note that I referred to heavy people, not the obese. A 300 lb bodybuilder with 6% bodyfat is as at much risk for knee injuries from cardio as a 300 lb obese person. It’s a matter of how much stress is placed on the knee, and when there’s weight coming down, it doesn’t matter what it is.

Just for the record, I’m not obese, although I am overfat (25% body fat, more or less–on a male, that ain’t so hot).

No, no, let me rephrase it, then.

I’m not judging anyone. First off, I don’t care what size you are. I really don’t. Secondly, with regard to the original debate that spawned this thread: if an overweight person is taking up half of my airplane seat, it makes me pissed off. It doesn’t make me judge them: I just want what I paid for.

Now, the reason for my previous posts. You’re right, I don’t know the reason for obesity by looking at an overweight person. No idea. Could be a medical reason, or they could be in the habit of eating 12 cheeseburgers for breakfast. I can’t tell, unless I catch them at McDonalds at 8 AM. :wink:

I wasn’t talking about individual cases. I won’t judge those. I was merely saying that it is important to keep in mind that diet issues are at the heart of this problem, and that suggesting that glandular problems et cetera are of importance too is disingenous. Yeah, some people have medical reasons for being overweight. But if 55% of a population is overweight, chances are that medical reasons aren’t even remotely relevant in the grand scheme of things.

Which is why it is all the more frustrating to see people shield with all sorts of medical and psychological reasons, all in the name of PC-ness, all ready to defend themselves from the perceived offense.

I’m not trying to offend anyone.

But if Americans on the whole keep trying to blame their nation’s propensity towards abnormally high weight on things other than diet, the problem is not going to go away. I don’t know if the majority of overweight Americans do this, frankly. I just know that I see a lot of otherwise intelligent people here displaying exactly what Collounsbury describes.

And it’s not helping anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by BottledBlondJeanie
I have a question. I think what I’m hearing from some of you is that “cutting down on calories and increasing exercise” will not help you lose weight. Is this true?

I mean, if you really did cut down your calories, say to about 1800 a day and exercised (actual cardiovascularish) 3 times a week for, let’s say, 2 months that you wouldn’t lose weight?

Because I guess there’s the rare exception, but I believe it would work for most folks.

But if you acknowledge that this works and for some other reason (either psychological reasons or inability to exercise) cannot do it…those are the people that I feel for the most.

But, if you’re trying to convince me that the above doesn’t work in most cases of obesity, I ain’t buyin’ it.

Yeah, what he said, and then some!!

But to answer you BBJ, no, we are NOT saying that if you eat less and exercise more you won’t lose weight. What we are saying is that for many overweight people MUCH more than that is required before those types of people are able to be successful at fat loss.

Again, I’ve posted cites here in this thread that lead to a website written and managed by a doctor who specializes in weight loss.

The whole gamut of information from BMR (base metabolic rate) through how to figure an appropriate calorie deficit (not too much so that you don’t lose muscle mass, and enough so that you lose fat mass), is contained within his website.

I have other cites as well, but the cite I’ve included in this thread already has about the most user friendly explanation of how the whole “how many calories does MY body need” thing.