So. If the answer to more than one of these questions is “yes” does that mean it’s ok to have an opinion?
Just checking.
I just switched to coffee. Easier to do, and without the nasty after taste of a standard diet drink.
If one wants a decent diet soda without Aspartame(Nutrasweet), Diet RC is sweetened with Splenda.
Of all the different sweetners I tried when I found out that I was diabetic, Splenda is the best.
Anyone can have an opinion, ** alice. ** The question is whether the opinion is in any way valuable.
First, thank you for this thread. This is one of the first “fat” threads I’ve read that wasn’t brimming over with spewed vitriol. I used to not know what drove me to read such threads when they only upset me, but now I do know: I was waiting for a thread like this. Yeah, there’s still some vitriol, but there are a lot more posters who have their ears open and are trying to understand instead of pass judgement.
So, I’m fat.
I’ve thought of myself as being fat since I was in sixth grade (pictures of myself show that I wasn’t). I probably wasn’t genuinely fat until well into college. After 10+ years of trying to lose weight by eating less and exercising - and failing miserably, I have finally started to lose weight in a manner that I hope will continue and keep the weight off. In doing so, I’ve learned a few things.
First, I think there is a genuine addictive quality to some foods - SOME, that is. Primarily the high sugar foods. I have no hard evidence, only my own experience. Last December, I started having heart palpitations. No fun. The doc told me it was probably because of my caffeine intake. So, I cut out all sodas. I had been drinking 40-60 ounces of Coca-Cola a day. Not as much as some, but certainly more than I needed to be. I had a week of brutal headaches and another week of nearly falling asleep in the middle of teaching Writing to a bunch of eighth graders. I had cravings for soda for another month or so, though I could usually banish them by thinking of those fun palpitations.
Quitting sodas seems to have kick-started something in how my body processes food. My blood sugar went from a score that showed I was halfway to adult onset diabetes to back in the normal range. That was fantastically cool. But other things started to happen as well . . .
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my sense of hunger changed. I was no longer hungry ALL THE TIME. I wasn’t thinking of food ALL THE TIME. I started getting very clear signals from my body that I had eaten enough, and the sense of fullness I got from a small meal lasted longer and longer.
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my sense of taste changed. Sweet foods I previously loved no longer tasted so good. In fact, I found I was much less interested in them than before, and when I was, a little bit was as good as a huge chunk had been before.
With one tough change in my diet, I suddenly had insight into what other people had told me but never made sense before. These were the people who never really thought about eating; food was just fuel to them. These were the people who didn’t find much pleasure in sugary foods; they found them unpleasant.
But why this? And why now? I’d quit cokes before, for a whole year back in college, and I was overweight then. It didn’t do a single thing for me. I lost no weight, even though I was exercising more back then than I am now. The times I’ve done Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig, I quit sodas - for about three weeks and then went straight back to drinking them because the cravings were overwhelming. This time, I quit them, and without exercise, I lost 15 pounds over three months - more weight than I ever lost on any diet or exercise habit.
It’s no secret that a diet high in refined sugar changes the way the body produces and reacts to insulin. What I’m beginning to think is that perhaps there is some mechanism to insulin that strongly affects appetite, hunger, taste, and even brain chemistry. There is no other way I can explain how my own body’s signals and behaviors changed in such a short time.
Now, does that mean that fat people should be excused from responsibility for their own health? Of course not. However, I think it does mean that obesity, its effects, and its remedies are far more complicated than some mindless mantra of “eat less, exercise more”. I never managed to eat less before because my body drowned out my willpower with full volume screams of “FEED ME, SEYMOUR!”
So now I’m starting to learn how it feels to have a healthy appetite, normal hunger, and taste buds that don’t want to be coated in sugar. I just wish that those who claim all fat people are lazy or stupid or self-destructive could have a day with my previous reactions to food.
Ah. So, if the answers to more than one of the questions are “yes” does that make the opinion valuable, in your highly esteemed estimation?
I know I am chiming in late to this thread, but I just wanted to add my 2 bits.
Im 27 years old 5’9" and I weighted about 150lbs for the last 5 years or so. I was not insanely skinny. I didn’t look like a skeleton. My forearms are really skinny so it maked me look extra skinny when I would wear a T-Shirt, but with my shirt off I looked fine. Anyway, I tried and tried to put on abot 25 lbs or so because I wanted to get a little bigger. I never could put on any weight.
About 5 months ago I think I finally began to hit that point that all skinny guys hit around 30 where the metabolism slows down. I didn’t know it was happening at the time, but now I am getting soft around the gut, and for the first time ever I have to buy 32" waist because none of my pants fit me. To most this would be a bad thing, but to me I am hoping it is permanent because I have wanted to put on some weight for a long time and fought hard to do it but it just wouldn’t happen.
Anyway, I think the problem with the arguement that diets don’t work for everyone is that there is one undeniable fact about human physiology that you cannot refute: If you take in less calories than you burn in a day you WILL burn fat. There is no illness (that I know of), or disablility that changes this simple fact.
It is actually much, MUCH harder for skinny guys/gals to put ON healthy body mass. Not only do we have to eat a ton of calories a day ( I was on a 4000 calorie a day diet for 3 months. Put on 6 lbs), but they have to be the right calories, in the right proportions, so we can keep our body fat % down.
It is just more cut and dry when it comes to losing weight.
It makes the opinion informed to some degree, and an informed opinion is always more worthwhile than an uninformed opinion. Do you not agree?
What? Fat bashing is no longer Politically Correct? Will I have to take down my “Save a whale, harpoon a fat chick” bumper sticker now?
ducks and covers
Another idiot in Oregon.
What’s wrong, are Idaho’s militias turning people away?
New poster here - so bear with me.
I’m obese. Really big. I’ve never had the social/health/wellness problems that other big people seem to experience, and for that I thank God.
Every fat person is fat for a different reason - some because they overeat, others for other reasons. There’s no “one size <heh> fits all” approach for losing weight.
I find that exercise is the key - for me. However, I’m fortunate I can move freely and easily at my size. A lot of people can’t.
Someone mentioned that insurance companies offer benefits for obese people - some do, some don’t.
I guess what I’m upset about is this mindset that everyone can be made non-obese by the same methods. Have a little patience with us folks - most of us are doing the best we can. Personally, the thing that bothers me the most is the tone of hostility <“fatty”, “fat-ass”> that accompanies these outpourings of advice. Treat me like you’d treat anyone else, OK? We’re humans, too.
>> most obese people have an eating disorder.
Stoid, can you explain what it is about American society that makes many more people have eating disorders?
Three things
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At home I cut my coke (can’t stand the diet stuff) with lemon mineral water. Suggest that other pop addicts give it a try.
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My brother in law is morbidly obese. Nothing he has tried has worked. Diet, exercise, surgery, or medication (phen-phen did work for him, but caused memory issues). I suspect he has a little OCD where food is concerned - in twelve years I’ve never seen him leave anything on his plate (except when he was on the phen-phen) - he wipes up sauce with bread. Since his surgery, it can take him two hours to eat a meal, but he eats every bite. And exercise is a problem, the heavier he gets, the more difficult it is to move, the less he wants to do it. I’ve always wondered what Zoloft would do for him. He also considers food a hobby - he is a gormet, has to try the best restuarants in town, loves wine and is very knowledgeable about it.
BTW, as a result, my sister has gained a lot of weight. I suspect this is do to keeping him company while he eats. If you are sitting in front of food for two hours, you will eat. And if your hobby activity is going to really good restaurants and drinking wine, well, your a little more likely to gain weight than if your hobby activity is biking.
- I am within weight requirements, but am nearing the top, which means its time to loose ten or fifteen pounds to give myself a little room (and keep myself from needing a new wardrobe). Last time I did this (about six years ago) I went to weight watchers and had some luck with it. At the same time, its hard for a relatively skinny person to do weight watchers. WW for someone who is 5’7" and 150 lbs is kind of like the gym for someone who is 5’7" and nearing 300. It is a battle to keep weight off (I love sweets, have cut the fries completely from my diet just to maintain) - and I’m not looking forward to cutting my intake further to get some off (which means giving up all pop and alcohol, all sweets and having soup for lunch and an apple for a snack). I used to be one of those “eat anything, stay skinny” people - but there aren’t many of them out there once you reach middle age. (I was always slightly jealous - heavier people in WW will usually lose weight faster AND get to eat more. Here I was wanting to drop fifteen pounds, following the plan and it took three months - several people who started with me dropped fifteen pounds in the first month! Granted, they had a lot further to go - so I wasn’t green with envy or anything).
Best of luck to anyone who is battling their weight.
Well. I have(had) an eating disorder. I’m studying Psychology and have done quite a bit of research on eating disorders.
This means that when it comes to myself, and when it comes to a number of women in Experimental Group “X” I have an informed opinion.
However, when it comes to anonomous members of a message board, my input is no more valuable than anyone elses. I don’t know why poster X is obese any more than you do.
Basically, apart from generialzations, I am no more suited to have an opinion than anyone else on the board. Everybody eats. Everybody moves about. Peypole typically are affected by this issue either because they themseves have an eating disorder, someone they are close to does, or some total stranger choses to make their obesity the problem of people around them - ala the woman on the plane.
Esentially, every person posting has some experience with the issue - experience that is more specific and more applicable to their situation than mine will every be, regardless of my own expereinces or training.
I think implying that the general public doesn’t have the right to express an opinion because of their lack of “experiece” is arrogant in the extreme.
Obviously a person spouting “Every fatty just needs to exercise and eat less - har de har.” is a moron. However, a number of posters that may not fit your criteria have made some valuable posts, IMHO.
Al.
Stoid: “most obese people have an eating disorder” I don’t think that’s the whole story (see below.)
sailor: “what it is about American society that makes many more people have eating disorders?” Part of the answer to that can also be seen below.
Stoid: “Are you morbidly obese? Have you ever been morbidly obese? Have you had to fight morbid obesity most of your life?” OK, I’m willing to be educated about your case. You say you are morbidly obese. What does your doctor say about the possibility of losing weight? What does s/he say about the health risks of your condition? What does the doctor recommend for you to do?
The bolded part in ZiggyB’s quote is very relevant. Did you guys know that in parts of Africa, colon cancer hardly exists? The reason is thought to be quite simple: different food from us Westeners. See this South African comparison between the white and black part of the population as an example.
Now, as we all know, apart from a few superficial differences (skin tone possibly being one of them), people in Africa are the same as people in Europe or the US. If you’d put a man from Tanzania on a typical American diet, he’d suffer the same risks as any other person eating the same stuff. Similarly, had I been brought up on the plains of the Serengetti, I’d have a much lower risk of all sorts of diseases, including colon cancer, heart problems, high blood pressure… you name it.
With me so far?
Good. I submit that the problem with obesity is no different. It’s a side effect from having an abundance of food that’s way too sweet and/or fat for us. One of my friends, who’s a doctor, tells me that even with what we Westerners consider a pretty strict low-fat diet, we STILL have a much higher risk to get colon cancer than the average African. So then, having all that food, and being able to get it so easily, means that we’re prone to eat a lot more than we need.
Everybody still on board?
Cool. Now, why is it then that relatively comparable societies like, say, the UK have significantly less obese people?
I’ll tell you why. I visit the US at a lot, so I do feel I can make a valid comparison between the US and Europe here. When I get up in the morning, I make myself a few sandwiches and a coffee. Maybe some juice. In the US, I (like many, many others) tend to just grab a quick bite from a fast food place, usually by means of the Drive-Through. Lunch? Dinner? Same thing. The availability of fast food resources, and their relative inexpensiveness compared to store-bought fresh groceries means that people will eat that shit, all the time.
The fact that so many Americans are overweight is a simple reflection of that. I’d like to see the “in most cases, there’s a reason for obesity” crowd explain why obesity doesn’t exists, or is extremely rare, in nations where the traditional diet is vastly different. Surely, there’d be tons of people with glandular problems in Africa as well?
I will second Coldfire’s observation, having similar occasion to note clear differnces in eating behaviour in the US, Europe and MENA regions. The argument the reason Americans are obese is bec. of genetics is clealry absurd. It’s a matter of sociatal eating patterns – in addition I would say to a culture of excuse making.
Just as an item of perspective and for what it’s worth: There have been other societies where what would now be termed obesity was common. Ever look at pictures of adults in various Eastern European countries? Both women and men beyond a certain age are quite hefty. As an example, I am now considerably overweight (due in part to relative inactivity after some injuries – I’m working on it), my Eastern European mother-in-law and her friends think I’m finally looking healthy. When I was at a normal weight they would always rag me about being too thin. I would not be surprised if this were true of the previous generation in other cultures as well. I have a copy of a cookbook for “Ukrainian Cuisine.” It offers the advice that one should be sure to consume at least 3000 calories per day – more if one is especially active.
Although there are some other factors at play as well:
In the Serengetti there is a good chance that if you have a severe health problem, you don’t live long enough to have obesity become one of the symptoms of your other health issues. My former coworker Matt, who is obese, but also wheelchair bound, may have simply not survived his traumatic injury in the third world - and being wheelchair bound is a significant contributor to his weight (although there are skinny wheelchair bound people - it is my understanding that it can be very difficult to stay thin in a chair).
Now, I’m not saying this accounts for the entire delta between obesity in the US vs. the African plains. But it would account for a fraction of it.
You can not generalize from a population statistic to an individual (and I know Coldie and Coll realize this, but just in case someone comes along looking to make a federal case from their comments). There is certainly the occational heavyset African with a glandular problem - and there is certainly the occational heavyset American with a glandular problem.
Oh, I’m not dismissing individual cases outright, Dangerosa. And of course it’s a little more complex than diet alone. But diet is at the heart of the problem, and presenting a simplified scenario helps to point that out.
We can add more things: Africans walk around all day, while a lot of Americans have desk jobs. Many Africans don’t have cars, whereas many Americans do, and they USE them more than any other nation in the world. Americans tend to work long hours, limiting the time for sports and whatnot.
All of that is true. But if you take a bird’s eye view of the problem, and compare two populations, only to find out that one is significantly heavier than the other, chances are it’s because that one population is simply consuming too much.
And sure, there’ll always be cases where mitigating factors apply (your friend in the wheelchair, for example), but on the whole, it’s a diet issue, and claiming the majority of overweight people have another underlying reason other than a skewed intake/output balance is just plain wrong, and -as Collounsbury points out- sounds like one is looking for an excuse rather than a solution.
Now, watch a couple of dozen posters take offense to those words.
Stoid you might bring an interesting * opinion * to this if you could calm the fuck down. The answer to the above for me would be yes, but saying that someone who does not fit your criteria does not have an informed valuable opinion is silly. And, if you’ll note, until you, this was pretty much a conversation, not a finger-pointing tirade…