I think your post isn’t worth the effort you put into it. Just because he is American doesn’t mean he is right or that I have to respect him. He would have had my sympathy until he used his son’s death as an excuse to bash a religion.
I respectfully suggest you were just significantly wooshed.
Could be.
For the record, Eric Rudolph is NOT a Christian.
Mind you, I’m not saying “he’s not a TRUE Scotsman… er, Christian,” or “He’s a BAD Christian.” I’m saying he simply isn’t a Christian. He doesn’t believe in God or in Jesus, and is amused by people (both his fans AND his critics) who think he is. He is a self-professed atheist and nihilist.
In his own words, “I prefer Nietzsche to the Bible.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-05-rudolph-cover-partone_x.htm
As for Timothy McVeigh, he’s a more complicated case. He was raised Catholic, but doesn’t seem to have attended ANY Church once he reached adulthood. He told interviewers that he believed in a Supreme Being, but refused to elaborate any further on his beliefs.
So, was he an agnostic/atheist? Apparently not. A Christian? PROBABLY not that either. What WAS he? I don’t know that he fits into any simple religious category.
aSPLITTERS!
Oddly wikipedia cites to two articles where he proclaims himself a Catholic. Eric Rudolph - Wikipedia. It seems a bit more complicated.
Am I the only one in this thread that understands that if someone happens to be religious, but that their terrorism isn’t motivated by that religion, then it’s essentially coincidental and they should not be regarded in the same way as people who commit terrorism because of their interpretation of, and devotion to, their religion?
A lot of the Palestinian militants are not particularly religious nor religously motivated, either.
I didn’t say they were. But I think we can agree that Al Qaeda is a religiously motivated organization, right?
Edit: That’s my point. If a Palestinian commits terrorism for purely political reasons, and happens to be Muslim, then I wouldn’t label them as a Muslim terorrist. On the other hand, if they committed terrorism because they thought their religion compelled it, I would.
We can indeed agree that Al Qaeda spot on fits that definition.
It was rather my point in mocking that Magiver fellow whose list of Muslim terrorists included Christian Marxists…
It becomes a close call in some situation, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad for instance. But they don’t seem interested in much beyond their own national liberation movement, contra Al Qaeda.
That Rudolph fellow is another close call, as it is hard to credit a genuine atheist would follow his particular trajectory (that is choice of targets and ideology), never mind the contradictory things he seems to have said about his religious feelings.
Neither do I.
Poe’s Law states:[1]
“ Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing. “
I feel I have to point out that there was no winking smiley or blatant display of humor in Enderw24’s post so I have no idea if he was serious or not :dubious:
I figured it was a whoosh. At first I was like, “Huh?!” but I doubted Enderw would say anything so asinine. Plus, it’s such an over the top kind of parody of the other posts who say pretty much the same thing–that they haven’t actually read it and just figure it’s a question of free speech which we’ve repeatedly said it isn’t.
I submit this “In fact, I barely managed to get halfway through the title before clicking the “reply” button.”
The Palestinian list I grabbed for convenience included some organizations that started out as marxist with a quasi-secular face but all have or had a military arm that engaged in terrorist acts. If you can cite these acts were done by Christians or had a Christian centric mantra then have a go at it mate. It won’t change a thing. Crafter_Man’s statement was accurate as posted.
Bullshit revisionism.
And incoherent at that (never mind funny with your quasi secularist dancing).
But there’s not question about terrorist acts. It’s the sad ignorance of slapping anything that a Muslim could have been involved in with the Muslim/Islamic Terrorism label.
You wrote:
Rather evident from this, in your mind Palestinian groups = Islamic terrorists.
Then you listed (order slightly reworked, annotated)
So, of your Ay-rab Islamist terrorists, you got 2 of 8 right, and managed to pull into two Ay-rab Christian lead organisations into you Ay-rab = Muslim = Terrorist = Islamist Terrorist fun list. I would say that in any grading system, 25% as a grade is a failing grade, we probably should deduct demerit points for not even being able to exclude Christian lead organisations, but then maybe we should recalculate for you on a double counting basis as well.
It’s rather bleeding evident you had not the slightest clue. Rather calls into question any basis you might have for rendering a judgement on the question, I should think, since so far you have demonstrated a worse than chance ability to distinguish Islamist terrorists from other groups.
This is amusing coming from someone who blithely listed Christian lead organisations as Islamic Terrorists. Never mind that the majority whose terror organisations were non-Islamicly oriented hard Left marxist outfits.
By similar vacuous standards, the various South American groups operating in the past 20 years are clearly Catholic Terrorists, and the Basques Catholic Terrorists as well, as well as the Irish.
Of course counting them as Catholic terrorists would be bigoted and blinkered nonsense as a standard.
I’d be happy for a balanced accounting (and on objective grounds, might be interesting), but not from Americans who have gotten on their high horse since 11 Sep and haven’t the basic knowledge to distinguish between an Al Qaeda and a George Habash, or for that matter between ETA and IRA.
If you want to be anal about this that’s fine. You seem the type. I grabbed a group of Palestinian factions as an example of the plethora of Islamic terror groups and didn’t research each one. Doesn’t change the accuracy of Crafter_Man’s statement one wit. And if you don’t like my nationality you know where you can shove it. Best of luck next time someone expresses a religious opinion in your subway system.
Being accurate and factual rather than indulging in sweeping, ethnically based and completely inaccurate (as I think 25% hit rate is completely inaccurate) gross characterisation is anal?
Well, I believe you may be the poster boy for the object of this site’s main object.
This is quite charming really.
So, in essence just because you’re aware (I guess we have to give points on that) that Palestinians are Ay-rabs, you leaped to assume that (i) Palestinian groups are Terrorists, (ii) they’re Muslims, (iii) ergo Islamist Terrorists.
There’s a word for that sort of sweeping ethnic thinking.
Now, since your knowledge level predicts that you’re got a worse than even - that is worse than guessing - chance of actually knowing if someone or something in the news is actually Islamic, I submit your continued assertion:
is a most charming example of argument from defiant ignorance.
How you would have any clue as to the accuracy of Crafter Man’s statement when you’re unable to discern Islamist from anything else escapes.
Or if one applies the same standard of analysis, that turned Christian socialists into Islamist Ay-rabs - to make the accounting on the same basis, then one should find a rather larger number of Christian terrorists around.
But one can’t have it both ways.
Unless one is merely a religious bigot, but then it’s no longer a question of accuracy at all.
I didn’t compile the palestinian list, I grabbed it intact from another site. The fact that 25% of it might be wrong negates the other 75% as well as all the attacks worldwide done by Islamic extremists. To this you counter with Basque separatists and the ETA which is: A) a civil war and B) driven by Marxists and not extremists. The violence of the ETA was from it’s change over to Marxism.
You are the person who wants it both ways.
Magiver, this forum is called “Great Debates” not
“Great grab a list from another site without reading or understanding it”
Good luck.