I trust my daughter’s confidence and sense of self, and experience for that matter, enough not to be worried about her.
But I do know what I was like at that age. Hell, I know what I’m like now. And the answer to the OP is Yes.
Don’t girls initiate sex anymore?
I’m hoping my kids take after their mother 
Yes.
Yes.
[As the parole board guy in “Raising Arizona”] Okaaay then!
I’d be curious to know if women think all girls who date their boys are sluts till proven otherwise, btw.
What is this word “anymore” whereof you speak?
You made an assertion without basis, so I replied in kind. If you’d like to back your statements up, I’m sure we could have a real conversation about it. “The inside of my head tells me 25 year old women don’t want 15 year old boys” is not really a persuasive cite in a world where a whole lot of the females salivating over, say, Daniel Radcliffe as Harry Potter were well past puberty and occasionally menopause as well.
I didn’t make an assertion…I asked a question. Two, actually.
Gee, it looked for all the world like you were making a point about how it’s not a double standard if we scrutinize males more than females because females are less likely to be attracted to teenage boys or act as aggressors when underage. Was that not your position?
Whereas my response to your post and the one that precedes it is, “God, what a bunch of pansy asses. No fun in them at all.”
I’ve heard and read plenty about girls being much more aggressive toward boys and sex than they were years ago. My son, who’s 32, had plenty of girls calling him when he was a teenager.
http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/news-by-subject/index.cfm?i=56490
I think the likelihood of females being predatory or only interested in sex is less. This thread started in IMHO—In My Humble Opinion—and that’s mine. For every Mary Kay Letourneau or Pam Smart, there are probably 100 Joe Blows who aren’t unusual or remarkable enough to generate a TV program.
But again, that’s my opinion. If you want figures etc. of which gender creates more problems in this area, google away. If you find something that sets my opinion on my ear, do come back and post it, but honestly I can’t be bothered to pursue a defense of what I already believed and had confirmed in psych classes. I’m sure the status quo has changed some from when I was growing up, but not dramatically enough to make me rethink my views.
One golden rule of the Pit, if I’m understanding it correctly, is the right to be irrational. If it’s your contention that I’m using a double standard, so be it. Seeing as how I don’t have children, it’s kinda moot. But if you want to be suspicious of girls who date your sons, be my guest.
Re the question about women going after teen age boys: Mary Kay Letourneau, that school teacher who “seduced” one of her own students. Of course, she’s at best deranged, but they do have 2 kids now.
IMS, we had a thread about older women and under age guys where the consensus seemed to be “Hey, that’s one of guys’ favorite fantasies and all guys wish they were so lucky” except for a few women, myself included, who said “rape is rape no matter who is doing what to under age whom.”
Re fathers and daughters: when Daughter was born, jokes were made by TH re shotguns etc. Now that she’s 19, those have stopped. He is puzzled that she is not yet sexually active. I am not, for reasons I won’t share here. It will come, and I hope our talks about responsible sex and the use of condoms has sunk in. She’s in college and it’s out of my hands now.
We do have 2 sons. I am very blunt with the 17 year old. I told him that no matter what any girl says to him about birth control or “it’s ok, I’ve got it covered” etc, he is to use a condom. I don’t “mind” him having sex–I mind him having irresponsible, ruin your life sex. He is usually appalled that I am talking to him at all about this, but my husband has not, so who else is to do so? The 5th grader I’m waiting on–he still plays imaginary swords battles.
I wouldn’t say I consider all girls sluts re my son (or all boys after only one thing re my daughter), but I don’t ignore the issue either.
I think most girls who are sexually interested in my son (which is by no means all of them) tend to be of a stronger mind about it than he is. They tend to flirt, make overt passes, and then become offended and cause drama and angst when he reciprocates physically. They gossip; they’re rude and crude and vulgar; they kiss and tell (often to literally hundreds of other people at once, thanks to MySpace); they are terribly cavalier with his feelings, believing that he’s a dog and couldn’t possibly have them, because they’ve heard things like what’s in this thread all their lives.
In short, they’re a lot like I was at 15. I just never had the broader view of the behavior and its impact on young men before.
The basic problem is I can’t tell (on this topic) when you men are joking anymore. We have threads where we talk about what a problem the male = pedophile mindset is. We have threads about how men are NOT dogs, that they’re thinking, feeling human beings who shouldn’t be judged by beer commercials and sitcoms. Then a thread like this comes along and I don’t know what to think. Are you all joking? 'Cause that’d be okay. Are you using some masculine code for subtly revealing your insecurities and worries about your daughter’s sexuality? That’d be okay, too, I guess. Is it just a clever and metaphorical way to collect your favorite stand-up quotes on the issue? That’s perfectly non Pit worthy, too.
I just don’t know how to take everyone’s posts except at face value, and at face value this thread is full of psychopathic dogs who seem to think they own the young women in their lives. I just know that can’t be true, not of my Doper men! And so that’s why I told myself it must be me.
I thought “girls as sexual aggressors” was common knowledge. I guess not.
a) What WhyNot said (especially the end parts)
b) Let’s redo the OP a bit: you fathers of daughters, can you speak a bit on how you ideally wish your daughters’ sexuality to manifest itself? e.g.,
• you hope she’s lusty & healthy and picks boys who are nice people and/or has no illustions about those who are more cute than nice, and has her fun within the constraints of safe behavior? [in that case can you elaborate on the “men scum” motif as it applies to her fun & frolic? are you worried about her ability to distinguish cute-but-not-nice from cute-n-nice?] or
• you think females are more often victimized by their own sexuality than not, and you think there is a narrow band of possibility within which a female can have some kind of pleasant & fulfilling liaison with a male but you’re worried about the other opportunities? [in that case do you have any response to the assertion of adult women that they’ve been at least as victimized by “protective attitudes” that they experienced as restrictions on their access to sex?] or
• it’s not an “all females” thing at all, it’s specifically my daughter, the sexual treatment to which girls in general are exposed is not worse than what they dish out to guys but my daughter is a much nicer person and is entitled to better and I want her to hold out for a similarly exceptional guy? [if so, are you worried about her ability to distinguish cute-but-not-nice from cute-n-nice? and do you have any response to the assertion of adult women that sometimes they are not looking for prince charming or joe sensitive but just a nice roll in the hay with a cute guy?]
• what we all THINK your attitude is of course 
— my daughter has no damn business having a sexuality at all, she should be in pigtails and flatchested and be my little girl forever and not grow up. I honestly can’t get past the sense that sex, and sexual thoughts of males towards females, is inherently nasty in some way that is irreconcilable with how I think of my daughter. So none of that sex stuff is going to happen with her! [if so… oh never mind]
Yes, I am really surprised that it is not common knowledge, as well.
IME, girls are quite likely to be sexually aggressive.
-FrL-
Yeah, and wrote a book about it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in some (many?) cases where women are the older one, they at least think they love the boy. That rationale would fall on many, many, many deaf ears if the older man said he loved the younger girl, of course.
Pam Smart, OTOH, seems to have seen the boys as means to an end, killing her husband.
No doubt, a lot of us guys were attracted to girls, older girls, younger women, older women…I can say for myself that there’s no way I would have been emotionally ready for it, however.
Hmm, sounds like some points being made in **Ensign Edison’s favor (and that of others who post as I write. I’m about one foot out the door here but will have to come back and read the cites (thanks!).
My WAG is that there is a female counterpart to the father’s “This boy is scum,” which may be, “This girl is not good enough for my son. She’ll never love him or take care of him the way I do.” Exaggerating, but along those lines maybe?
Years ago in a psych class, a prof said that some debate among academics whether personality exists at all. I mean, if you define it as some stable characteristics or attitude toward the world or some consistent manner of behavior…what? We tailor our behavior to the situation.
I go home and see my mom and I clean up my language.
Then I see my brother and we tell dirty jokes.
But if I have to go to a funeral, I’m “reverent.”
If I’m with the SO, maybe I’m Casanova (yeah, right!).
On the internet, maybe I’m Walter Mitty.
Then when I’m alone…maybe I pick my nose but wouldn’t at any other time. I’m not saying I do—I’m not saying I don’t. Maybe.
Then of course, there’s a lot of variation in the group of men to begin with.
I’d like to see some studies about this. But it’s a complicated issues. Private desires and public expressions of those desires, and thirdly actual actions taken with other individuals, are all three apt to diverge in cases like this.
But anecdotally, I’m thinking back to all the girls I knew in high school in more than a passing fashion. I’m thinking of seven. Of those seven, (counting,) I know that five were sexually aggressive. (Not all towards me, mind you. :p)
But that’s totally anecdotal, and even there in each case probably a completely different tale can be told explaining the reasons for their aggressive attitudes.
I would be really interested to know what kind of research has been done about this.
-FrL-
Absolutely, and I deplore the double standard. I also :dubious: that the women think they love the guy. There are quite a few women who use their sexuality to manipulate guys, from getting them to kill for them to letting their robes slip open when the paper boy arrives (ick). There are women who are “hounds” just as much as men are.
And fantasies aren’t realities (and in some cases, shouldn’t become realities).
Not so WAG. There are girls who I do NOT want my son to have anything to do with. Maybe they’re just immature or don’t know how to talk to adults or want to be seen as rebels or whatever, but some girls do fit your characterization. And then there are the female equivalents to Eddie Haskell, and they’re probably the worst of the bunch. See Parker from Six Feet Under as my cite.
IME, girls were more aggressive in middle school toward my son. Lots of phone calls (especially from this one Tiffany who was a trip). I am on his FB (I don’t intrude), so perhaps that cuts down on a lot of this. But there is this: my son is not dating and has expressed no interest in doing so. I know he probably is interested, but it’s not a part of his life that he shares with me. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, it just is.
We all do that, male, female, child, adult. I am not the same person here as I am in person (which can sometimes make RL meetups with Dopers awkward for me–I don’t know how to be in person, because I’m different “on paper”–more articulate, more reasoned, less passionate and opinionated etc). I am not the same person as a mom as I am with my friends or coworkers etc. And none of them is the me that I am when I’m alone. Of them all, I prefer the Doper me and the alone me, which probably speaks volumes about me, but I digress…