FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024

One wonders about the context, many of those documents were stored in boxes that also contained framed Time Magazine issues that Trump signed and gave to his visitors… a place to hide secret documents, a gift that most will not bother to check if inside such a tacky item, there was something that a mole or a mule was glad to take away.

I missed that. Early reporting talked about three:

“We have learned that the filter agents seized three passports belonging to President Trump, two expired and one being his active diplomatic passport. We are returning them, and they will be ready for pickup at WFO at 2 pm today,” Bratt wrote, referring to the bureau’s Washington field office.

I would wager real money he wasn’t reading anything beyond rapidly skimming and looking for references to himself.

Agreed, and references to people he wants to manipulate.

Was it a diplomatic passport (black cover) or official passport (maroon)? I thought it was the latter, but am unclear.

He wouldn’t really need any US official’s permission to use a diplomatic/official passport, but the country he was trying to enter would have to accept its use and validity, and I could see that being really awkward for him if that other country chose to inquire as to his status.

His status? He has not been formally charged with any criminal acts, so his status is still former POTUS (in good standing, but no gold star). So far he is only under investigation and even if he was charged, does any country keep you out if you haven’t been convicted of a felony? And would a diplomatic passport bypass that as well, wouldn’t the US State Department need to officially revoke his diplomatic passport?

No, I mean his status as an official legal representative of the US government. Diplomatic recognition (and immunity) is something given by the foreign country based on the US saying “yes, he is here as our emissary.”

I believe that all former POTUS serve as official ambassadors of our country and have diplomatic passports. They represent democracy (I gag in this case). Its also provided if only to provide them with extra security when they travel abroad such as not going through customs. You don’t want a former POTUS risk getting kidnapped in a crowd.

Again, up until now this hasn’t been a problem. Its a good question, could Trump shoot somebody in the middle of Paris and get away with it? Could France deny to recognize him as an ambassador? I believe they could.

Russia’s Putin pays tribute to Gorbachev but won’t attend funeral"

Just FYI

I’d like a cite on this. From my admittedly limited observations, official and diplomatic passport holders typically go through customs too (although they may have a special and shorter line), and anyway his aides would not be entitled to diplomatic passports. The sitting president would not be compelled to go through border control and customs checks as a courtesy extended by the nation that invited him, but I’m not clear that other nations would extend the same courtesies to former presidents.

Another highly questionable source takes a stand against TFG in this MAL/documents issue:

I think there are too many money shots to excerpt under Fair Use, but it’s a quick read.

I would too, but its difficult to do a search on this now because google is overflowed with references to Trump and diplomatic immunity. As best as I can figure is its yes and no. It depends on whether the country he is entering allows him to be recognized as an ambassador on his own accord. Perhaps if Biden actually did send him somewhere to represent the US in some capacity that would carry weight, but of course we don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

You never know where a war might break out.

Ukraine may accept him, yes that would be interesting since he has so much experience and rapour with Zelenskyy. I sure they would respect and treat him well. :grin:

Yeah, send him on Putin’s behalf, as he “has no time” to assist personally. He could do his old friend this favor.

And still he was so dumb as to let it expire? :man_facepalming: Yeah, of course he was…

When you think of it, passports are a bit of a paradox as official documents go: they are issued in one country for the citizens of that country but are to be used abroad, where the country issuing them has no jurisdiction. As soon as the passport holder crosses the border and enters the international zone at the airport, before take off, the passport can be declared not valid. There was a similar case in Germany that went all the way to the Constitutional Court, the Elfes case, which law students still study today. The gist of the matter being that the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany allow free movement, but as they only apply to the territory of the FRG, they don’t give you the right to leave the country. That was long before Schengen, of course, 1957. It shows what strange documents passports are, based solely on convention and good faith between the parties/countries. And if somebody has shown disrespect for convention and good faith, it is TFG. Would laugh if that came to bite him (I know that won’t, but something might, someday, and I will still laugh).

I don’t believe that is the one that expired. There were three.

I imagine Macron would give him the cold shoulder. TFG really threw a grenade in our laps with that one.

Antarctica?

I’ll bet they would want to send him on a goodwill tour to Kherson, to support the Ukrainian troops.