FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024

[Johnny_L.A]

@Atamasama

I’d expect the government to have an expert witness to testify to the veracity of those documents.

Ha! An ‘expert witness’ from ‘the government’? Deep State!

[dougrb]

@Aspenglow

I’ve never seen anything as egregious as Cannon’s seemingly willful disregard for legal precedent as those rulings.

Glenn Kirshner thinks she will be removed if she doesn’t recuse herself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmJlJ9kWfGI

[CoolHandCox]

My premise was flawed. After reading more, and DavidNRockies post above, to claim a “it’s public information” defense, there does need to be some factor that the Government doesn’t care/not trying to prevent it from being public.

As an extreme example, you can’t upload it to the internet when the FBI is knocking on your door and claim it’s too late it’s on the internet and no longer secret.

For the Reality Winner example I used, it would depend on the timing. So, definitely after the Mueller Report was released, by the Gov’t, that secret info about Russians trying to interfere with voting systems that was on the document is no longer secret and the Gov’t is ok with it. At that point, I would think, it’s not a espionage “retention” crime to have that document. Even if the Gov’t didn’t release the info, as long as they don’t care that it’s out there.

All of this to say, I don’t think this is a defense in this particular case (they wouldn’t have charged those documents), but the Defendant definitely has a right to be sure and to see the documents (evidence) being used against them so they can defend against the charges - basic 6th Amendment stuff. The documents and what is on them are the very heart of this crime.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@dougrb

Donald Trump trial: Trump forfeits only expert witness in E. Jean Carroll defamation trial | Washington Examiner

Trump forfeits only expert witness in E. Jean Carroll defamation trial

Well to be fair, the witness was “unable to testify due to health issues”. Which I take to mean “I’m sick of not being paid”

[dougrb]

I’m curious WHAT he was an expert in?

[Chronos]

@PhillyGuy

If I was on the jury, I would want to be very sure it was a real secret before sending someone to prison for violating the Espionage Act.

And the way you tell that is if it’s in a folder that says “SECRET” on the front of it in big letters. I mean, seriously, what do you think that means? Unless you’re arguing that maybe the documents were about stuff that shouldn’t have been classified? Because that’s really not our call, or the jury’s, to make, because we’re not professional intelligence analysts, and as other posters have pointed out, even information that looks innocuous to the layman can have major national security implications.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

We don’t even know if he exists. “He” may have been just an excuse for no defence in the case.

“Oh, we had a defence but ummmm. He’s ahhh … sick! Ya, that’s the ticket. Very sick, ya.”

[dougrb]

I was finding humor in the thought of a “Grab 'em by the pussy” expert.

[PhillyGuy]

@Chronos

And the way you tell that is if it’s in a folder that says “SECRET” on the front of it in big letters. I mean, seriously, what do you think that means?

One thing it means is that Trump stole it from the rightful final owner, the National Archives. Months ago I suggested that Trump be charged with theft, but that wasn’t popular because there would likely be no jail time.

We can speculate what Cannon will put in her instructions to the jury about how to know a document was a national security secret. As far as I know it will be just as you say, but maybe not.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

I really don’t see what’s going to be hard about this case.

• There existed documents contained information about national security
• Trump took the documents
• Trump wasn’t allowed to take the documents
• Trump was asked to return the documents
• Trump delayed/stonewalled for months
• Trump returned some documents
• Trump/Trump’s lawyer denied there were more documents
• There were more documents
• Trump refused to return the rest of the documents
• The FBI got a warrant to get the documents
• Trump hid/ordered the hiding of the documents
• The documents were kept in a place accessible to the public
• Trump bragged about having the documents to members of the public, and confirmed on tape that he was not allowed to have the documents.

The trial should take 3 days.

(narrator: It won’t)

[PatrickLondon]

[deleted - redundant]

[DesertDog]

@Atamasama

Real trials don’t make for good entertainment. Well, not usually.

It is unfortunate that federal trials are not televised. If they were I’d make a killing in taking a long position in popcorn futures.

[Spoons]

No message.

(Hey, Discourse wasn’t upset by such a short message.)

[kaylasdad99]

@CoolHandCox

re: next steps and the ETA. I’ll carve out the other Defendant (who still needs to make a plea) and focus on Trump.

They have started discovery. I’ll divide into classified discovery/evidence and normal discovery. For normal discovery, that can be turned over fairly quickly.

For classified evidence, first, Trump needs a lawyer with clearance to receive it. I think he’s working on that. It’s basically just doing a background check on the attorney. He’ll also want lawyers with national security experience, and should be afforded time to find some.

There will be normal motions to suppress evidence, like the attorney conversations/notes, and to invalidate the search warrant, etc.

Then it gets murky because we don’t know how the prosecution intends to handle the classified documents. To win the case, they have to prove to the jury the docs contain national defense information. So they have to let the Defense/Jury see them, but how (because of all the secrets). There is roughly three choices:

1. Declassify them and hand them over;

2. Redact/summarize them using a process called CIPA - this could take a very long time regardless of whether appeals are involved;

3. use the silent witness rule - the docs are not marked as exhibits (so not public), the defense/jury is handed the unredacted document, and the Gov’t witness on stand describing why the document relates to national defense information will say “look at paragraph 4 and read it, that’s talking about how we would defend an attack on the west coast” (basically, everyone can see the document/details, the witness describes the details at a high and superficial level and that description via transcript is the only thing made public).

So for ETA, it depends on how the prosecution intends to present the evidence. I’m sure they have considered this very much prior to filing. However, they also choose 31 documents - 20 which are Top Secret! Declassify, and we’re off to the races. Get defense/Judge to agree on how the Gov’t wants to redact or summarize it, and it’ll inherently take a very long time (certainly not before the election).

ISTM that it would be prudent and efficient to maintain every classified document with a pre-redacted version on file for the eventuality that it could be ready for publication for any potential jury should the document be the subject of a trial for mishandling.

[enipla]

@smithsb

He got McDonalds to go on the way to the plane. Come on man, a few more double cheeseburgers; those arteries aren’t going to plug themselves.

Did he actually fly from Miami to Palm Beach - Mar a Lago (70 some miles)? Or is he back in NY?

[Moriarty]

@enipla

Did he actually fly from Miami to Palm Beach - Mar a Lago (70 some miles)?

It’s too hot to be in south Florida for the summer. He spends that time at Bedminster, New Jersey.

Donald Trump makes return to NJ after arraignment in Miami, calls charges 'fake'

[jsc1953]

Of all the places in the world he could choose to spend his time, he just moves from NYC to New Jersey to South Florida. Does he ever leave the Eastern time zone?

[Procrustus]

@jsc1953

Does he ever leave the Eastern time zone?

He goes to Scotland from time to time.

But I get your point. With his “money,” I’d be spending time in the South of France, Italy, Tahiti, Argentina, and 1000 other places. I like NYC, but NJ and FL are way down on any list of places I’d have a home.

[DavidNRockies]

@Procrustus

But I get your point. With his “money,” I’d be spending time in the South of France, Italy, Tahiti, Argentina, and 1000 other places.

You probably aren’t despised intensely around the globe

[Gyrate]

That’s because you’d want to go some place where there are interesting things to see and do, and new and interesting cultures.

Whereas Trump prefers to live in his bubble of locations in which he is the boss and everyone has to kowtow to him or be fired.