Trump once responded to the notion that he used to say stuff like “only mobsters take the fifth amendment.”
But you see, that used to be true. That was before he became the target of the largest witch hunt of all time. Now he takes the fifth all the time, hundreds of times, because he’s a hero.
I’m sure the same logic applies here.
For exact wording, see page 43 here:
30 percent of Democrats nationwide — and I think zero percent here. Just something to think about.
P.S. Even though I may be the least enthusiastic of any Democrat here when it comes to Espionage Act enforcement, and I generally want more pardons, I’m sure there are a large number of federal prisoners more deserving of a pardon than Donald J. Trump.
Just to note - an on line poll with no reported margin of error. Doesn’t mean it is wrong but you can compare its other answers to questions well polled. For example it states Trump’s net is 45% approval with a net of negative 3 while most polls place his net at an average of negative 17.
Not sure how much to think about from that one poll.
As phrased like that I’m not sure how I’d answer. If I was convinced that a pardon would result in national unity I’d support a pardon, and the phrasing implies that as the hypothetical. Saying “oppose” sounds like you are opposing national unity! I however think it would further exacerbate divides more than heal, especially given that a pardoned Trump would claim victory, innocence proven, and still be hell bent on undermining our democratic norms.
I’ll wait on more and better polls before thinking on it too much.
Yeah. It reads like push polling to me, using the poll to put out the idea that it would increase national unity if he were pardoned.
A proper poll would just ask if someone supported a pardon for Trump. Maybe they could separately ask why.
A demonstration of hope over experience. If Trump was pardoned the MAGAts would trumpet* it as proof he’d personally thwarted the attempt by the Deep State™ to steal the country from Ghod-fearing 'Mericans and he’d be a bigger hero to them than ever, and the divide would be deeper than it is now.
*Sorry.
National unity? Why would I want to be in a “unified nation” with the type of subliterate inbred jackasses who voted for a narcissistic conman not once but twice? I’m for exiling these morons permanently to North Korea or Russia or whatever authoritarian hellhole appeals to them most.
Pardoning tRump would be the final act in guaranteeing the downfall of the United States of America. We made this mistake with Nixon on Watergate, and Reagan/Bush with Iran-Contra. No More.
Agreed - the lesson from prior scandals is never steal anything small. Go big, or go to the slam like the peons. That must end. I now think Trump should have been taken into custody the minute the FBI found he had documents with higher clearance than their agents could read. What’s the right going to do - accuse Biden of being a dictator?
Let 'em. They’re doing that already.
If France can lock up Nicolas Sarkozy (albeit by home confinement with electronic monitoring) we can do at least as much with an ex-president who has likely bartered national secrets and tried to undermine the democratic process. Where’s that American exceptionalism when we really need it??
Exactly! Unity is overrated.
How about we unify instead by locking up Trump* and his 100 closest henchmen** and their 10,000 key enablers***, and we vilify anyone **** who continues to express sympathy for them? That’s real unity.
*home confinement, defining a “home” as one of those bathrooms with a chandelier, for the rest of his miserable life
** big-boy pants prison for 10-20 years, conspiracy to overthrow
*** prison for 5-10 years, various felonies, mostly “being too gullible to walk around free”
**** like we do for open racists, gay-bashers, anti-Semites, xenophobes, moronic jingoists now. “No soup for you.”
Why not?
Obviously, you can’t just let any old lawyer read the contents of a top-secret document.
But my question is: why do the lawyers in the case have to read the contents?
The charges are about illegal possession and storage of the documents, not the content of them.
Neither the prosecution nor the defense need to know the contents.
Say, document number 1234-5678 is stamped Top Secret.
It doesn’t matter if document number 1234-5678 contains information detailing the number of air force planes what will be needed to bomb Iran’s nuke facilities, or if it contains a phone number of an informant operating in China.
Why do the lawyers have to read the document? All they need to know is that it is clearly identified asTop Secret, and it was located in the Trump’s bathroom.
I agree with you, but I suppose the strategy is to pile up just enough over-classifications (“See? What a bunch of trumped-up nonsense!”) to trigger jury nullification. Frankly, I don’t know what else the defense has at its disposal. Anyone else would have negotiated a plea by now with the case the government has.
Push polling? From those far-right Harris poillsters working with the Harvard Center for Political Studies? No way. Different wordings were tried to find one that few respondants would be confused by.
Do I think a pardon would contribute to national unity, or do anything else positive to anyone outside the Trump family? No. Better to respect the jury verdict(s), one way or the other.
But do I think the Democrats in the SDMB Politics & Elections thread skew more partisan and Trump-hostile than the average Democratic voter? Yes. And that’s why I thought this was a slighly interesting finding to share.
And I’m not saying SDMB is a hotbed of extremism. Compared to other internet message boards that skew Democratic Party, this place is moderate. It’s more that internet political discussion, as a whole, is not America.
Yes. It doesn’t matter who did the poll, adding “in the interest of national unity” is a sure way to raise the “yes” response rate, among all cross-tabs.
(Doesn’t mean it’s a terrible poll, or that it doesn’t reveal important things — it does.)
How about “If Donald Trump were convicted and sentenced to jail for his handling of classified documents, would you support or oppose a president pardoning him in the interest of national unity that would spare this great country years of violent protest and very possibly Civil War and ultimate dissolution?”
Would that be a push poll?
“In your opinion, which of the following actions would better promote national unity?
The criminal prosecution of any American citizen who obstructed the government’s attempts to protect national security.
Or
Subverting justice to appease a wealthy, politically influential American citizen who is most likely responsible for damaging national security?”
Or simply, “Do you want to be soft on crime?”
Do you prefer all Americans to be equal before the law or do you prefer that the wealthy and powerful be above the law?
I can agree with that. And I suspect that you can agree that an on line poll that skews to outlier status in Trump approval from the bulk of polling and that asks if something should be done in a very leading manner is also not to be accepted as an accurate reflection?
Ill intent need not be assumed.
The content is an essential element of the willful retention charges. The prosecution has to prove that the documents contained information “relating to the national defense,” which means the defense has to be able to see the documents so it can give its best argument as to why they don’t relate to the national defense.