FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024

Politics & Elections
7101

I’ve been following the prosecuting Donald trump pod cast with Andrew Weismann and Mary McCord. This week’s episode mentioned the 32 count. One thought was that they included it to get the recording in to the trial. Without charging that document, trump team could and may even win getting that excluded.

This is the only document that was not found in the search, but it is the one they have him on tape waving it about and saying how cool it is.

To get this into evidence, it had to get a large amount of people to sign off; I would bet those documents have been updated and new documents draw up for that battle plan.

In the incredible chutzpah filing, trump would like to discuss the classified documents outside of a scif! In Bedford and mar a lago! Seriously! I have officially lost any sympathy for any lawyer who voluntarily works for this man. To put that request into a filing is just insane.

The podcast had accounts from both of them on how ridiculous conversations can get it you try to discuss classified information outside a scif. You have to go to words like thingys, whatchacallits, whosawhatsis, etc.

7102

I thought that, at one time, there was a SCIF at Mara- Lardo while he was president.

7103

There was, I believe it was a temp construction and was decommissioned.

7104

re: New Trump Iran Document Charged Crime

This is mostly for context. A lot of stuff happened with this Iran document, but the actual charged crime is contextually trivial. It’s technically a crime, a serious one, but alone, I don’t think it would be charged. Maybe - it is one we know he discussed with others.

Trump was only charged with retaining the Iran document. So, that doesn’t become criminal until NARA asks for it. NARA asked in May 2021, asked a few times, and in response Trump returned 15 boxes of records to NARA in Jan 2022, which included this Iran document. That’s the charged crime - While he did return it to NARA, he didn’t do it the first time NARA asked for it in May 2021.

All this was before the FBI ever got involved (ie, NARA asked for presidential records, and got back 15 boxes that also included confidential records/Iran doc, and thus referred it to the FBI who started to investigate in Mar 2022). A lot of other stuff happened with this document (moving it to NJ, showing it off to people not allowed to see - all the seemingly more criminal stuff), but they didn’t charge any of that.

For comparison, all the other 31 documents charged, Trump did not return in response to NARA. It took much more to get them. For those, he returned them only after the FBI investigated, started a grand jury, and in response to a criminal subpoena (Jun 2022), or, he never returned and they were recovered via a warrant/FBI search (Aug 2022).

On another note, I wonder if there is some information the Gov’t has that a copy was made of this Iran document. It really felt to me like they didn’t know where this Iran document was - for example, see rocking_chair reference just above to the podcast where they state “this is the only document that was not found in the [FBI Aug 2022] search”, - I mean, unless there was a copy, then of course the FBI wouldn’t find it because it appears it was already returned. Am I missing something?

7105

I half expect the next filing will be a demand to give the military secret documents back to trump, as he has a pre-existing contract to sell them to North Korea. A perfect contract.

7106

This document is the one that they have proof of him showing it to people with out clearance and that he knows it is classified and he did not declassify it and can not declassify it.

Using this document and the tape knocks the various defences he has tried out in interviews. Which is what one does in court. Get your ducks in a row, and anticipate the opposition ducks, and have evidence to knock down their ducks.

7107

Got it. Evidence of the necessary intent for the other crimes he is charged with (and now this one). I presume they knew all this before when they filed the original indictment, though. So why not charge it the first time.

Not charging the first time could certainly be for this reason. I haven’t listened to the podcast (sounds interesting, though), but I think your quote means there were multiple Govt agencies (eg, DOD, CIA, etc) involved in compiling the Iran war plan document and the DOJ needed all of them to sign off on declassifying some/all of the information contained on the Iran document so DOJ could use it at as evidence at trial. Even still, just seems like a slow/cautious gov’t process that took a while, and not due to anything new DOJ learned. Which is fine, but just needs to be understood - a tactical charge.

7108

What’s the current best guess as to the likelihood of a separate indictment pertaining to his actions at Bedminster?

7109

Unless they find files at bedminster, I don’t see what they have. This document went from fl to nj, where it was waved about, back to fl, and then to archives.

Given what we know publicly, there isn’t anything else that can be “chain of custodied” at bedminster.

7110

That’s a great question. I imagine the answer has to do with flipping witnesses not related to what happened in NJ, to bolster what happened in Mar-a-lago.

The case in Florida could be better (especially with Cannon as Judge) - better concerning the already charged crimes (you want to lock down intent), and uncharged conduct that could be charged later (was Trump just hoarding classified info, or willing to share it…did he share it? Plus, more obstruction charges). Witnesses don’t appear to be flipping in the way DOJ would prefer yet. The DOJ desperately wants, and probably needs Nauta (knows a lot about everything) and de Oliveira (IT/security footage/obstruction stuff), and possibly others, to bolster the case against Trump for charged crimes and uncharged. The case is good now and some witnesses are cooperating, but it could be better. You want it to avalanche where inevitability sets in and everyone cooperates. It’s not.

If they don’t flip - Nauta, de Oliveira, and other witnesses uncharged right now, then you might see Trump charged in NJ - to both escape the general “unpredictableness” of Judge Cannon’s rulings, and maybe to escape the…let’s say…appearance of being unknowingly complicit in Trump’s/others obstruction by ordering FBI to stop investigating when Trump/others are still trying to coverup their crimes.

From what we know in the FL indictment - Trump could be charged in NJ with dissemination of national security info under the Espionage Act, or a different crime of disclosing classified information. Something like that.

7111

That’s weak sauce though. As far as I know, nobody is saying that he let the reporter read the document. He did disclose its existence, but c’mon, I, as your hypothetical normal person, would have assumed that we had plans to attack Iran even without Trump waving paper in my face. Just like the commonly known plans to invade Canada and I assume, Cameroon, Cambodia, and Chile. We’re the most powerful military on the planet - I assume we have plans to invade (or at least attack) EVERYBODY - it is just reasonable. It’s more the retention than the disclosure that’s the actionable issue.

7112

One of the innumerable ‘defenses’ you hear about January 6 is the “(it wasn’t an insurrection) because nobody’s THAT incompetent.”

Remember that one?

It’s ba-a-a-a-ack!

“Well, let’s be clear,” Habba replied. “If there was an attempt by somebody who lives in a home—take out President Trump—who owns a company. He owns it, he owns the I.T., and he pays for all these employees. If there was an attempt for him to not turn over documents or he wanted something deleted, do you not think that that’s something he couldn’t have gotten done? Let’s just use common sense.”

It’s genuinely hard to contemplate any higher heights of cynicism than this, yet – no matter how little they think of their supporters …

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

7113

Legal Eagle has a video on the latest indictment.

Devin mentions at a certain point that someone from one of Trump’s Super PACs may have been part of the conspiracy, as they were mentioned in the indictment as being in a group chat with Nauta and unnamed “Employee 5” in discussing whether De Oliveira was loyal to Trump.

Devin suspects that PAC member was Susie Wiles. Here is an article also making that speculation, and it has a lot more information about her and her suspected involvement.

Susie has been mentioned in this thread previously as being someone who was questioned by the DOJ in regards to this case.

7114

What is that that little clip of a Trump-like person saying “I expect loyalty” - is that actually Trump?

7115

I don’t know, that threw me too.

7116

It could just as easily be a mobster, using that term and that tone of voice.

Oh, wait…

7117

Which clip is that?

7118

At 7:38 in the Legal Eagle video.

7119

Okay, I found it! :smiley:

It’s from the Showtime 2-part miniseries The Comey Rule, which was released in 2020.

The actor playing Trump in the clip is Brendan Gleeson, aka “Mad Eye” Moody from the Harry Potter films.

7120

Gleeson was superb in this role. I hope he gets to play in the inevitable movies that will be made about Don the Con. There was a scene where Donnie is eating ice cream and Gleeson captured his piggishness perfectly.