The FBI shouldn’t be concerned about public perception. They should be concerned about national security secrets not getting into the wrong hands.
I suspect you’re right, but if so, that doesn’t reflect well on the FBI in this situation.
FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024
Consider how much Trump got away with openly with no one stopping him for years. Our system of government relies far too much on the good faith of our leaders, no one knew what to do, or had the balls to do anything about it, when an openly corrupt, bad faith leader came into place.
You’re trying to say it was implausible that the FBI and the rest of the government would let him get away with this for so long - well, they let him get away with a whole lot of extremely corrupt shit for years. They’re so fucking afraid to go after Trump for his blatant crimes that even when he was a walking national security disaster they tried to softball it and ask nicely for the documents back as to not cause a stir.
For those keeping score at home, and who appreciate a tidy matrix:
Unnamed source = not credible
Named source = RINO
Warrant served too late = witch hunt
Warrant served much earlier = witch hunt
Not a republican = Radical Left
I flipped to Fox for a moment yesterday, and Tucker was talking about Hunter Biden’s laptop, of course.
And I suppose that in a perfect world, so would former presidents. But we’ve got this world, instead.
What would you have had them do differently or more quickly? They investigated. They brought their findings and requests to a judge asking for a search warrant. Then they executed that search warrant in a legal manner.
Yes, they spent a year begging and pleading for the return of materials they knew were missing from the Archives, but they didn’t know the scope and extent of all that entailed (not just letters and hurricane maps, but real classified information). When that part of it started to become clear, they upped the ante from polite requests to a personal visit from the Feds, then upped it again with a subpoena for the remaining documents when they discovered even more were being held. Finally, they requested a search warrant.
We probably have a thread on this somewhere, but I must have missed a few months of news or something because I really don’t understand this. As far as I know, it’s not a crime to have a laptop, and no evidence of any crimes (other than sex and drugs) was alleged to have been found on his alleged laptop. Rudy made up some crazy shit, but never produced any evidence. Do they just say “Hunter Biden’s laptop, wink wink” or do they actually outline why they think there’s a scandal their?
There are many threads. One good representative example is linked following, where one person says it’s a nothingburger and then a true believer comes in to argue the other side.
You can get a sense of the Fox-&c spin from this.
They do from a law enforcement perspective. When you’re up against a former president, you have to cross every t and dot every i to reduce the suggestions of partisanship in law enforcement which will inevitably follow, so that in the event of charges, that allegation of partisanship does not become a basis for the defendant to challenge it.
They also have to follow legal restrictions that do not apply to ordinary situations, such as the access restrictions in the Presidential Records Act and assertions of executive privilege.
If someone comes to the FBI and says “Northern Piper has top secret documents, here’s how I know”, a search warrant could issue real quick, because Northern Piper can’t assert executive privilege, and the DOJ doesn’t have to ask the President of the United States for special access to Northern Piper’s documents.
Not so when it’s documents held by an ex-prez, who is asserting executive privilege.
When the search first occurred, Republican supporters of Trump immediately said that a search warrant against a former President’s home was way over the top! Talking points were:
- Why didn’t Archives just negotiate the return of the documents?
- Trump returned all the documents Archives asked for.
- There was no need to get the FBI involved!
- Why didn’t they just get a subpoena?
*There was no need for a search warrant, which should only be used in the clearest of cases. - These documents aren’t really a security issue.
And now, the talking points have been rebutted, with the release of the warrant, the inventory, and the affidavit:
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Late 2020: Archives starts negotiating about the presidential records, after the election was clear, just like they do with every other outgoing president;
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The Trump response was initially “they’re mine - bugger off!”
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May, 2021: Archives notifies Trump of specific documents that they are aware exist and are missing, and ask for him to return them (the Kim letter, Obama’s farewell note, etc). No suggestion at that time of classified / national security documents. Trump is reported to be showing the Kim letter to guests at Mar-a-Lago, confirming that he has it.
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Late 2021: negotiations between Archives and Trump’s folk drag on until late 2021, when Archives warns that they may have to make a referral to Justice under the Presidential Records Act; again, no suggestion of national security docs.
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January 18, 2022 - Trump transfers 15 boxes of documents to Archives
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January 2022 - Archives officials start going through the docs in the 15 boxes and discover that there are national defence information documents, not contained in any separate folders, just bundled up with non NDI documents. Archives notifies Justice Department.
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January 2022 - DOJ makes formal request to Biden to authorise the FBI to look at the documents. DOJ is required to seek presidential authorisation, as the Presidential Records Act provides that only the president can authorise law enforcement to look at presidential records.
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January 31, 2022: Archives makes public statement concerning the records and that some may be missing or destroyed
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February 9, 2022: Archives refers the national security issue to Justice.
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Spring 2022: DOJ empanels a grand jury to review; conducts interviews with several Trump officials and lawyers about access to the documents.
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April 29, 2022: DOJ formally advises Trump’s lawyers that the review has uncovered over 100 documents, totalling more than 700 pages, that are marked with various classification markings; advise Trump’s lawyers that they can review the documents on behalf of Trump, provided the lawyer doing so has the appropriate classification authorisation; Trump’s lawyers have trouble finding a lawyer with the necessary authorisation.
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May 10, 2022: National Archivist sends extremely detailed letter to Evan Corcoran, Trump’s lawyer, outlining the entire chronology and responding to Corcoran’s request for more time. States that Trump has made an assertion of privilege; Biden has delegated the decision on privilege to her; on advice of DOJ counsel she has concluded there is no basis for privilege; and, Trump has had ample time to provide the documents requested by Archives. She will therefore grant the FBI access to the documents.
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May 11, 2022: Grand jury issues subpoena to Trump seeking additional documents with classified markings.
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Mid-May, 2022: FBI begins review of the documents; finds that there are 184 unique documents with classification markings; of those, 67 are confidential, 92 are secret and 25 are top secret. Several have additional restrictions on distribution; some relate to “human intelligence”, the most sensitive type of intelligence.
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May 25, 2022: Trump’s lawyer sends letter asserting that Trump had declassified the documents and that the DOJ should be careful about allowing partisanship to influence law enforcement
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June 3, 2022: DOJ lawyers visit Mar-a-Lago; Trump’s lawyer, Christina Bobb, signs written statement that Trump has returned all classified documents, satisfying the subpoena.
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June 8, 2022: DOJ sends letter to Trump, asking that the document room at Mar-a-Lago be secured.
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June, 2022: FBI interviews Trump’s personal and household staff.
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June 22, 2022: DOJ subpoenas surveillance video.
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August 5, 2022: DOJ files application for search warrant.
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August 8, 2022: Search of Mar-a-Lago.
For me, the key take-aways are:
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Archives initially was just trying to get missing records; there was no suggestion of classified documents;
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It took from late 2020 to January 2022 before Trump sent the 15 boxes of documents;
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It was only when Archives did the initial review of the documents that they realised there were classified docs; Archives immediately alerted DOJ
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The Presidential Records Act restricted Archives’ ability to get FBI involved; DOJ had to make request from President Biden;
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ex-president Trump made an assertion of executive privilege, which had to be carefully reviewed by DOJ;
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DOJ immediately convened a grand jury to begin an investigation;
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only after the executive privilege issue was resolved in early May, 2022, was Archives able to allow FBI access to the documents.
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FBI began an immediate review and is able to state exactly what type of classified docs are in the 15 boxes;
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Grand jury issues a second subpoena;
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Trump lawyer signs document stating the subpoena has been complied with;
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In June, FBI conducts interviews of staff at Mar-a-Lago
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June 22 - DOJ issues additional subpoena for surveillance video.
It’s only after all those steps, in early August, that the FBI applies for the search warrant. Something about those interviews and the surveillance video appear to have triggered it, including information not just about the documents, but the issue of obstruction. There are media reports that the video showed people going in and out of the room where the documents were stored, and the affidavit requests that the warrant not just be in that room but in other areas of Mar-a-Lago.
So to respond to the talking points:
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Why didn’t Archives just negotiate the return of the documents?
Archives tried to negotiate the return of the documents for over a year, from late 2020 to early 2022, when Trump finally sent the 15 boxes. -
Trump returned all the documents Archives asked for.
It was only when the 15 boxes arrived that Archives became aware of the national defence intelligence documents. -
There was no need to get the FBI involved!
It was the discovery of the national defence intelligence documents in the 15 boxes that triggered the involvement of the FBI. Up until then, it was just a long-dragged out attempt to get missing presidential records, as required by federal law, but not a potential criminal issue. -
Why didn’t they just get a subpoena?
The DOJ got at least three subpoenas from the grand jury: when it was first convened; after the Archivist rejected the claim of executive privilege in May, and one on June 22, after the interviews with staff at Mar-a-Lago. -
There was no need for a search warrant.
We are not able to tell what was submitted to the judge on this point, but from the chronology, including the interviews with staff and the subpoena for the surveillance video, the FBI must have made a case that there were enough grounds to believe that the alternative of further subpoenas was not sufficient. This is particularly the case in light of the allegation in the affidavit of evidence of obstruction. Once you’re in obstruction territory, the need for speed ramps up, to prevent evidence from disappearing. -
These documents aren’t really a security issue.
Top secret documents are the highest classification, and top secret documents relating to human intelligence are particularly sensitive.
Here’s the two NYT articles I relied on for the above chronology:
Nothing. What I’m actually saying, which seems to be getting lost, is that we should all be tempering our expectations about what was found. That NYT headline JohnT posted is a good example of the problem. You could easily read that and think, “OMG, Trump had information that could have gotten our spies killed!” What it actually means is that the type of information fell into a category that includes “sources and methods.” Maybe it was a list of CIA operative codenames, but if so, you’d think the FBI have moved faster. That they didn’t suggest that the actual documents are more on the mundane side of that classification category.
I think a grand jury recommendation to indict is a no-brainer. I think a conviction is inevitable. But I also think that the information retrieved will be relatively mundane, and the reasons for Trump not turning it over completely nonsensical. I think the trial will be ugly and some aspect of the case will go to SCOTUS. Trump will probably die before we get a satisfactory resolution.
Holy shit, @Northern_Piper, that was incredible! Thank you!
Excellent overview. To be bookmarked. Thanks for what had to have been some work.
We will, of course, never know the contents of the classified information found. And AIUI, neither will the jury. All they will get is the same generalized information that was present in the redacted affidavit.
Thank you both for the kind words. This is what lawyers do in their free time on a Saturday morning - make a brief. 
Yes, excellent summary Northern_Piper. If you thought that I was repeating any of those talking points you addressed, then that’s my fault for not making my point more clear.
Thank you. Someone asked (repeatedly) “What damaging evidence are you alleging was found on the laptop?” No response ever from our friend on the right to that question. So, I guess Fox is doing something similar and just alleging the laptop was filled with damning stuff and no one in power is going to do anything about it.
Sorry for the tangent, but I was actually shocked that at this late date, Fox News is still beating the laptop drum.
Splendid work.
Now the question is indictment before or after November.
No, I didn’t think you were, personally. I have seen GOP supporters trying to make those points and wanted to respond to them.
A great recap Northern Piper. Its almost as if you were writing an application for a search warrant. I say this based on a career as detective of writing such applications. Chronological, to the point and without fluff.
BTW, what kind of exposure does Christina Bobb face face for lying about the return of all classified docs?