FEAR ME: I'm a Jew! or *sigh* WB strikes again

The BBQ Pit
1

I always told myself I wouldn’t do this. Heck, the only time I started a thread in the Pit about someone we all ended up as pals and debated into the night.

But here we go…

In this thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90571

Wildest Bill promulgates some more crap-ass predjudiced beliefs about Jews.

We are:

  1. That we’re smarter than everyone else
  2. That we’re better in business than everyone else
  3. That the plight (historic persecution, I guess) of the Jews is a sign of God’s existence
  4. That we worship the right God and, as a sign of that, everyone else hates us (apparently Satan is making everyone hate us)
  5. That the US is a superpower because of its support for Israel (God looks out for people who take care of his peeps, I guess)

sigh

So, Bill…

I am a Jew.
I don’t live in Israel.
Therefore all Jews are not Israelis
I don’t want to live in Israel
I am a businessman but I don’t see any real advantage to being a Jew in my work
Yes, Jews have been kicked around, but so have a great many other groups. We’ve just had a lot of ink this century.
The US is NOT a superpower because they back up Israel.

Otherwise, if I’m wrong, will members of the SDMB please start sending me money and women. Obviously, I’m naturally superior to you all and you should be happy to subsume your needs and desires to the greater glory of Chance.

Sorry, weak, I know. But I had to get it off my chest.

[Edited by bibliophage on 10-02-2001 at 01:28 PM]

2

Only my second rant and I screw up the coding.

Yo! A little help here?

3

I am no fan of WB, as everyone knows (including him), but I really begin to believe the guy cannot win. He states that Jews are smart, good at business, and blessed by God, and he still gets taken to task.

I agree that generalizing is not a great idea, but can’t we wait to be pissed off until he generalizes is a way that is actually insulting? Because, give him time; he will.

4

And Jews rule the entertainment industry. Just look at that nice Goldberg girl . . .

:wink:

5

If the Jews were really God’s peeps, wouldn’t Yasser Arafat have been vaporized by lightning already?

6

Would that be too offensive to use as a sig line? That’s the funniest thing I’ve read since they stopped putting Cathy in my comics section.

7

Jodi’s right, why on Earth are you offended at compliments?

8

Actually… dare I say this?

There may be a tiny grain of truth in the assertions, peeking out now and then.

**1) That we’re smarter than everyone else **

No. Plenty of dumb Jews, plenty of smart Jews, plenty of middle-of-the-road Jews. BUT - there’s no denying that there is a Jewish cultural tradition that places a high value on learning - more so, I would argue, than many other cultural traditions. The Torah tells us that learning should not be a spade to dig with – that is, that learning for the sake of profit is not what’s encouraged – but rather learning for its own sake. And of the traditional duties that the rabbis say a father has for a son, one of them is teaching him a trade – this is where the learning for profit’s sake comes in. In general, academic achievement in traditional Jewish families is highly prized.

This is not to say that other cultural traditions do not also include these values… but Jewish families live it as least as well as any others.

**2) That we’re better in business than everyone else **
No… but see (1) above. If achievement and education are prized, then certain things will result. There are, of course, lazy Jews as well as industrious Jews. But even for those that will not work, charity towards them is a mitzvah. This may, or may not, be “good business” in the traditional business sense, but I would argue it has the effect of creating a stronger overall community. Again, obviously, charity is not a virtue limited to Jews, by any means. But again, Jews tend to live it at least as well as any others.

**3) That the plight (historic persecution, I guess) of the Jews is a sign of God’s existence **
Er… Maybe. A skeptic can certainly doubt the existence of God, and note that the persecutions - or the successes - of Jews do not imply anything one way or another as to God’s existence. But – no one can doubt that whatever the reality, the Jews took their covenant with God seriously. That is, they took His mitzvot and followed them. You may doubt one side of the equation, in other words, but not the other.

**4) That we worship the right God and, as a sign of that, everyone else hates us (apparently Satan is making everyone hate us)
5) That the US is a superpower because of its support for Israel (God looks out for people who take care of his peeps, I guess) **

I’m not sure I follow the logic on these.

  • Rick
9

This could be material for the FOX special “When Jews Go Bad”

[sub]to be aired the week after their special, “When Arabs Attack”[/sub]

10

It doesn’t matter if it’s complimentary or not, a stereotype is a stereotype. Jews are people–some are dumb, some are smart, most are average. When you attribute traits to an entire group, you rob them of their individuality.

11

I can see why Jonathan would be offended. “Smart” and “good at business” are often used (not that I’m accusing Bill of this–I don’t think he’s smart enough) as coded anti-Semitism, being nice ways of saying “crafty” and “greedy.” After all, Fagin was “smart” and “good at business,” as was Shylock.

12

Just wait until Dope-A-Ween. Then you will have the women, and if you and Airman Doors do music and baseball trivia you’ll have the money.

13

Because it wasn’t a compliment at all. It was most likely meant well, but it’s still a stereotype with lots and lots of unpleasant history behind the sterotypes. And it has more than a whiff of that ol’ anti-Semitic “Jews are obsessed with money” and “Jews are crafty” thing.

And the specific comment from WB about

struck me as being a nice way of saying “they can jew people down.”. Again, WB didn’t say it, but there’s those echoes of centuries of history.

Look. I’ll grant that WB probably meant well when he posted it (and heaven knows I’m not a WB fan.) but would you be asking a black guy why he was offended if someone posted “Hey, you guys are natural athletes! And you’ve got such great rhythm, that’s why you can all dance so well! Look at Sammy Davis Jr: he’s a credit to your people!”?
Those are technically compliments too. But there are veiled insults (intended or not) and unpleasant history behind the “compliments”.

Fenris

14

My fear of Mr. Chance has nothing to do with his Judaism; rather, it is based in an awe of his leet Diplomacy skills, and his phat Chrononauts expertise.

15

I met and dated a Jewish girl several years ago, and when she first met I had asked her what nationality she was. She told me I was the first person she had met who actually grasped the fact that Jewish people come from all over the world, and that being Jewish is a faith, and not so much a nationality.

As far as not being offended…
Should and African-American be offended if you tell him all blacks are great athletes?
Should an Asian-American be offended if you tell him that all Asians are good at math, or computers?

16

Let me guess - you’re not a Jew. (Not a guess, actually, I already knew that, but still). Jodi, I like you and enjoy reading your posts, even if I don’t always agree with you, so please don’t take offense at the following, but just because you aren’t insulted, doesn’t mean that those of us about whom these grossly inaccurate generalizations are being made, shouldn’t be.

It is just such generalizations that breed contempt for us, based on a perceived injustice that we’re “smarter” or “wealthier” than the average person of any other faith.

Eh, I’m not really in the mood for great detail here, so I’ll just wrap this up real simply:

Please do not profess to tell me, a Jew, whether or not a gross generalization about Jews is “actually insulting.”

Thanks.

I really appreciate your consideration in avoiding stepping on my penis - Spiny Norman
Jeg elsker dig, Thomas

17

You got it. It’s not like I have much invested in the discussion anyway. :: Bowing out ::

18

Obviously, only negative stereotypes are harmful. I mean, take the Polish people, for example: Great fighters! I once saw this Pole I knew knock this other dude right on his ass! And the dude was twice his size too! Great fighters, the Polish people, you do not want to piss one of these guys off.

Not that I’m saying they have bad tempers, I’m just saying that you want to watch yourself around them because when they fly off the handle… whoo boy! And I mean this in the most complimentary way - excellent fighters, these people. Which is exactly why I wouldn’t want my sister to marry one.

Now do not get me wrong, I would never insinuate that all Poles are wife-beaters, that’s exactly the type of negative stereotyping that’s responsible for all the hate and ignorance in the world. Not to mention that Polish women handle their Polish husbands might-ty well thank you very much! 'Cause they’re just as tough as the guys!

No, obviously I’m not saying that Polish women are masculine, all I said was that they keep their men in line. Not all of them, sure. But centuries of having to deal with these violent (in a good way) men just has to have had an effect on the Polish female, both mentally and physically. The Poles are strong, capable people with a real knack for a good fight, which is a trait that can be every bit as beneficial as attractiveness, intelligence, or strong thighs. So get off the P.C. bandwagon, people! Just like any idiot can see I have nothing against the Polish people, Wildest Bill obviously has nothing against Jews, so where’s the harm?

19

How soon we forget the might of the German empire . . .

20

I think that Fenris said it best. WB’s “compliments” are not compliments at all. Many racist people use those same examples to justify their hatred (stealing our jobs, controlling everything, taking my kid’s spot at school).

And yes, gtzaskar00, if I was black I would be offended by the statement that all blacks are great athletes, because it is often followed by Jimmy the Greek’s assertion that “they were bred that way.”

If you generalize (stereotype) a group, it makes it eaiser to marginalize them, and thus to denigrate them.

Once again, I am not surprized that one of Wildest Bill’s statements was ignorant and inflammatory. Happens every day around here.