Fellow Dopers...Please Help

[Spice_Weasel]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Upon re-reading my last post, it makes me sound like a complete douchebag. I never intended that to be so.

No, you’re not a douchebag. I struggle a lot with understanding alcoholism.

My father told me, when I was 7 years old (and many times thereafter) that this is how he was and I was just going to have to accept it. He took no responsibility for anything, had no interest whatsoever in improving his life, refused to even take the class required to get his driver’s license back (we’re talking 40+ years with no driver’s license due to a DUI), and made excuses for every terrible decision he ever made. When he had weekend custody of me, we spent the entire time at the bar. I spent my childhood weekends in the kind of skeevy dives where alcoholics go, playing darts, playing pool, and dropping endless quarters into the jukebox while he drank. The times we spent together, even when I was six, seven years old, I felt like I was the responsible one. The precious few times he ever attended any of my school events, he showed up drunk. And he wasn’t the least bit apologetic, he just lectured me constantly about why he was justified in drinking. He had a rough childhood, blah blah. I feel almost nothing for him, and I’ve always felt guilty for that. I haven’t spoken to him in years. I just stopped returning his calls.

I don’t know why I feel the need to get this off my chest. My bio Dad’s alcoholism usually takes a backseat to all the other shit. But sometimes I think if he had his shit together, he might have protected me from the people hurting me. I think the fact that you have kids just make me think about this.

I know that he ain’t you. But it doesn’t mean your children aren’t affected by your alcoholism, no matter how much you’ve tried to conceal it. I want to make sure they are getting some kind of therapy or at least have people they can talk to about it. Something like Al-Anon? I’ve never been, but I have a friend who was really helped by it.

While I may not understand alcoholism, I do understand severe depression and feeling like you are a constant fuck-up. I also know, from experience, that the lowest points will someday be bad memories instead of your current reality. I hope you can hang onto that when you’re feeling discouraged. My heart does go out to you.

[Nava]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Upon re-reading my last post, it makes me sound like a complete douchebag. I never intended that to be so.

To me it sounds like someone who didn’t always do the right thing but always did try. Having had one parent who always tried and one who didn’t, I’ll let you guess which is the one I actually like.

How old are the kids? Depending on their age and maturity level the level of explanation and types of help they can use will be different.

This being a tax month I can’t contribute at the time, but I hope to be able to put something in next month.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Tee

We have a serious Dad shortage around here, it’s become an awful thing about the holidays. I donated earlier in memory of mine. He was an alcoholic too. I miss him.

Best wishes.

Damn. I am so sorry for your loss, and I wish I wasn’t the inspiration for your donation, but I must tell you thank you, and I hope to be better than mine (and your) predecessors.

@stretch

Sorry things are going so badly for you now. We all need help sometimes. Donation made.

I agree that we do, but asking for it is a battle. Thank you very much, rest assured it’s not in vain. I am praying that my CAT scan shows no cancer. If it does, well…it does.

@Spice_Weasel

No, you’re not a douchebag. I struggle a lot with understanding alcoholism.

My father told me, when I was 7 years old (and many times thereafter) that this is how he was and I was just going to have to accept it. He took no responsibility for anything, had no interest whatsoever in improving his life, refused to even take the class required to get his driver’s license back (we’re talking 40+ years with no driver’s license due to a DUI), and made excuses for every terrible decision he ever made. When he had weekend custody of me, we spent the entire time at the bar. I spent my childhood weekends in the kind of skeevy dives where alcoholics go, playing darts, playing pool, and dropping endless quarters into the jukebox while he drank. The times we spent together, even when I was six, seven years old, I felt like I was the responsible one. The precious few times he ever attended any of my school events, he showed up drunk. And he wasn’t the least bit apologetic, he just lectured me constantly about why he was justified in drinking. He had a rough childhood, blah blah. I feel almost nothing for him, and I’ve always felt guilty for that. I haven’t spoken to him in years. I just stopped returning his calls.

I don’t know why I feel the need to get this off my chest. My bio Dad’s alcoholism usually takes a backseat to all the other shit. But sometimes I think if he had his shit together, he might have protected me from the people hurting me. I think the fact that you have kids just make me think about this.

I know that he ain’t you. But it doesn’t mean your children aren’t affected by your alcoholism, no matter how much you’ve tried to conceal it. I want to make sure they are getting some kind of therapy or at least have people they can talk to about it. Something like Al-Anon? I’ve never been, but I have a friend who was really helped by it.

While I may not understand alcoholism, I do understand severe depression and feeling like you are a constant fuck-up. I also know, from experience, that the lowest points will someday be bad memories instead of your current reality. I hope you can hang onto that when you’re feeling discouraged. My heart does go out to you.

SpiceWeasel, your story, while drawing tears from my eyes, also helps me. I know in my heart of hearts that my sons know about me. Well, shit, they have known since my DUI. You cannot be dishonest with teenagers. Plus I wanted them to know as a cautionary tale, except…like you say, the propagation of alcoholism isn’t just genetic, it’s learned, and while my oldest swears he will never be like me or his mom (also an alcoholic), I fear for him. The counselling thing is in the works. I hate this with all my being but it is at least part and parcel of my own creation, and I have to deal with it.

@Nava

To me it sounds like someone who didn’t always do the right thing but always did try. Having had one parent who always tried and one who didn’t, I’ll let you guess which is the one I actually like.

How old are the kids? Depending on their age and maturity level the level of explanation and types of help they can use will be different.

This being a tax month I can’t contribute at the time, but I hope to be able to put something in next month.

Nava, it’s cool. I have reached the point where a contribution of hope is worth as much as a dollar. I knew going into this, through the vetting process by the Gods/Mods/Admin that be that this was a terrible time to ask for help, knowing many folks blew their wad on Christmas and now face larger credit card bills than usual. Again, I cannot ward off that, I have an immediate need to try to stay solvent. Every little bit helps and for you to even comment is a blessing from Og.

I want people to also know that I post at irregular times because in the five plus months I’ve been sober, I still do not sleep well. I don’t know when this will end, and when I do sleep, I am haunted by nightmares. I also want fellow posters to know I will continue to post in good cheer about things that interest me, like sports, car questions, etc. I’m not a dunderhead.

Thanks guys. This is, as they say, has been “real”.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

FWIW, I cannot stop crying listening to doo-wop songs. Please don’t ask me why as I do not know.

There are many favorites but this song, though not technically do-wop, tops my charts:

- YouTube

[sleestak]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Slee-

I have been meaning to consult you. As you are aware, this isn’t my first time on this rodeo, only in that it is now hopefully my LAST time due to circumstances. I don’t know how I could ask the AA people for help, they barely know me. Maybe they will, I don’t know. I’m extremely reluctant to ask them given the nature of AA.

Not sure what you mean by ‘given the nature of A.A.’ bit but…

The people in A.A. have been where you are at. A.A. should be more than a meeting where you slide in, sit in the back and listen then scurry out the door after an hour. The most important part, imho, is the fellowship.

My suggestions, if you haven’t already done so.

#1. Introduce yourself when they ask if there are newcomers in the meeting.
#2. Talk. Speak and explain what is going on with your life.
#3. After the meeting approach someone who volunteered to be a sponsor. If your meeting doesn’t ask for a show of hands for those willing to be sponsors at the end, pick the person who said shit that made sense to you and introduce yourself. Tell him, and yes you want a guy, you are looking foe a sponsor.
#4. If there is an after meeting coffee gathering, go.

If you do 1 to 3 and hang out a bit after the meeting, I am willing to bet you will have folks approach you. The folks in the meeting, those with enough time, want to help.

The kicker is, of course, if they think you are full of shit and trying to b.s. them, they will sniff it out and let you know. Probably with a ‘talk to me when you are serious’. If they think you are serious, they will likely help as much as they can.

The strength of A.A. is the people. Use them. They will get it and they will help.

I am sorta hesitant to bring this up but when we spoke a while ago it seemed to me that you wanted a shoulder to cry on, not help with your problem. I don’t have enough time to listen to people cry about their life if they aren’t willing to change. However, I will make time and do a lot for someone who I believe really wants to get sober.

It seems you now really want to stay sober. That makes me very happy, btw. So I am willing to do what I can. Most people in A.A. work the same way. If you show you are serious and willing to work, they will bend over backwards to help.

P.M. me if you want to talk.

Slee

[Morgenstern]

Maybe the time you spend listening to YouTube and crying would be better spent walking door to door looking for a job and a way out of the problem you created. No one cares if you fry hamburgers or research heart disease for a living, honest work deserves and gets respect.

Tough love I know. I hope YOU pull yourself out of this and get back on track. You know you *can do it *because you’ve done it in the past.

[Spice_Weasel]

[quote=“FoieGrasIsEvil, post:24, topic:805987”]

FWIW, I cannot stop crying listening to doo-wop songs. Please don’t ask me why as I do not know.

There are many favorites but this song, though not technically do-wop, tops my charts:

[/QUOTE]

What a song! I recently saw a (fictionalized) movie about Brian Wilson’s life, it was fascinating. I cannot remember what it was called.

I’m a fan of this Brian-Wilson related song, probably one of my favorites about depression. (I am a child of the 90s, this is the music I know.)

I don’t know if it helps you to listen to music about addiction vs. triggers you, but for me I find music really cathartic if it meets me where I’m at emotionally. So with this in mind…

The Gin Blossoms’ album New Miserable Experience is very much informed by alcohol addiction. In fact ‘‘gin blossoms’’ itself is a reference to alcoholism. I personally think the album is a masterpiece. Two of my favorite songs:

Lost Horizons (I’ll drink enough of anything to make this world look new again/ drunk, drunk, drunk in the gardens and the graves)

Pieces of the Night

And one of my personal favorites ever… Weezer’s Say it Ain’t So, which is about generational addiction. (Dear daddy, I write you in spite of years of silence… this bottle of Stevens awakens ancient feelings… like father, stepfather, your son is drowning in the flood)

[MoonMoon]

@sleestak

Not sure what you mean by ‘given the nature of A.A.’ bit but…

The people in A.A. have been where you are at. A.A. should be more than a meeting where you slide in, sit in the back and listen then scurry out the door after an hour. The most important part, imho, is the fellowship.

My suggestions, if you haven’t already done so.

#1. Introduce yourself when they ask if there are newcomers in the meeting.
#2. Talk. Speak and explain what is going on with your life.
#3. After the meeting approach someone who volunteered to be a sponsor. If your meeting doesn’t ask for a show of hands for those willing to be sponsors at the end, pick the person who said shit that made sense to you and introduce yourself. Tell him, and yes you want a guy, you are looking foe a sponsor.
#4. If there is an after meeting coffee gathering, go.

If you do 1 to 3 and hang out a bit after the meeting, I am willing to bet you will have folks approach you. The folks in the meeting, those with enough time, want to help.

The kicker is, of course, if they think you are full of shit and trying to b.s. them, they will sniff it out and let you know. Probably with a ‘talk to me when you are serious’. If they think you are serious, they will likely help as much as they can.

The strength of A.A. is the people. Use them. They will get it and they will help.

I am sorta hesitant to bring this up but when we spoke a while ago it seemed to me that you wanted a shoulder to cry on, not help with your problem. I don’t have enough time to listen to people cry about their life if they aren’t willing to change. However, I will make time and do a lot for someone who I believe really wants to get sober.

It seems you now really want to stay sober. That makes me very happy, btw. So I am willing to do what I can. Most people in A.A. work the same way. If you show you are serious and willing to work, they will bend over backwards to help.

P.M. me if you want to talk.

Slee

Read this, and then read it again. You don’t get out of this mess alone, I think you realize that now, with your request for help here. Next step - live people who’ve been where you are and can help you through to the other side.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Spice_Weasel

What a song! I recently saw a (fictionalized) movie about Brian Wilson’s life, it was fascinating. I cannot remember what it was called.

I’m a fan of this Brian-Wilson related song, probably one of my favorites about depression. (I am a child of the 90s, this is the music I know.)

I don’t know if it helps you to listen to music about addiction vs. triggers you, but for me I find music really cathartic if it meets me where I’m at emotionally. So with this in mind…

The Gin Blossoms’ album New Miserable Experience is very much informed by alcohol addiction. In fact ‘‘gin blossoms’’ itself is a reference to alcoholism. I personally think the album is a masterpiece. Two of my favorite songs:

Lost Horizons (I’ll drink enough of anything to make this world look new again/ drunk, drunk, drunk in the gardens and the graves)

Pieces of the Night

And one of my personal favorites ever… Weezer’s Say it Ain’t So, which is about generational addiction. (Dear daddy, I write you in spite of years of silence… this bottle of Stevens awakens ancient feelings… like father, stepfather, your son is drowning in the flood)

Say It Ain’t So makes me quiver with emotions. The rest I will address later. Maybe I’ll get some sleep. Maybe.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@sleestak

Not sure what you mean by ‘given the nature of A.A.’ bit but…

The people in A.A. have been where you are at. A.A. should be more than a meeting where you slide in, sit in the back and listen then scurry out the door after an hour. The most important part, imho, is the fellowship.

My suggestions, if you haven’t already done so.

#1. Introduce yourself when they ask if there are newcomers in the meeting.
#2. Talk. Speak and explain what is going on with your life.
#3. After the meeting approach someone who volunteered to be a sponsor. If your meeting doesn’t ask for a show of hands for those willing to be sponsors at the end, pick the person who said shit that made sense to you and introduce yourself. Tell him, and yes you want a guy, you are looking foe a sponsor.
#4. If there is an after meeting coffee gathering, go.

If you do 1 to 3 and hang out a bit after the meeting, I am willing to bet you will have folks approach you. The folks in the meeting, those with enough time, want to help.

The kicker is, of course, if they think you are full of shit and trying to b.s. them, they will sniff it out and let you know. Probably with a ‘talk to me when you are serious’. If they think you are serious, they will likely help as much as they can.

The strength of A.A. is the people. Use them. They will get it and they will help.

I am sorta hesitant to bring this up but when we spoke a while ago it seemed to me that you wanted a shoulder to cry on, not help with your problem. I don’t have enough time to listen to people cry about their life if they aren’t willing to change. However, I will make time and do a lot for someone who I believe really wants to get sober.

It seems you now really want to stay sober. That makes me very happy, btw. So I am willing to do what I can. Most people in A.A. work the same way. If you show you are serious and willing to work, they will bend over backwards to help.

P.M. me if you want to talk.

Slee

I meant nothing by “the nature of AA” other than what it is, which is participatory. I have not broached that step. I do not know what to say to these folks other than “Hey, I’m also an alcoholic”. That is a scary step for me, slee.

@Morgenstern

Maybe the time you spend listening to YouTube and crying would be better spent walking door to door looking for a job and a way out of the problem you created. No one cares if you fry hamburgers or research heart disease for a living, honest work deserves and gets respect.

Tough love I know. I hope YOU pull yourself out of this and get back on track. You know you *can do it *because you’ve done it in the past.

Yes this is tough love, especially considering I rarely sleep anymore since I’ve quit drinking. I have to find an outlet somewhere. I am also prodigiously reading books, but I can only do that for so long. I need an emotional output that doesn’t involve being drunk, and these songs are serving, for now.

@MoonMoon

Read this, and then read it again. You don’t get out of this mess alone, I think you realize that now, with your request for help here. Next step - live people who’ve been where you are and can help you through to the other side.

I get it. I want to interact with others that have been there, done that, but the last thing I want is a recounting of a story of my life someone else has lived that I have also already lived.

[Morgenstern]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

…
Yes this is tough love, especially considering I rarely sleep anymore since I’ve quit drinking. I have to find an outlet somewhere. I am also prodigiously reading books, but I can only do that for so long. I need an emotional output that doesn’t involve being drunk, and these songs are serving, for now.

…

No my friend. I’m serious when I say this, and it’s in no way intended to hurt you.
Drop the excuses. I know these other things make this more difficult for you. They certainly don’t make it impossible. You’re not a loser, you’re just someone paying for the mistakes you’ve made in the past, plus a little interest. We’ve all been there, one way or another.
I’d strongly suggest spending the day outside, walking around. The answer to your problem isn’t in your living room. It’s out there waiting for you to find it.

[Iggy]

You have been able to reach out to the Doper masses, anonymous as we are mostly, and admitted you are an alcoholic and need help. That is a tough thing to admit since you first had to acknowledge that to yourself. So it seems you are at a turning point and the next move is whether you can admit to real people, in a face to face encounter that you need help to get back on track. It is time for you to take action.

Look, the choice is stark. You have a chance. Now. And have a lot of people on your side. And guaranteed those at AA are going to be on your side if you are sincere and willing to take action. They are a resource that will understand where you are coming from and what community based resources are available in your area.

And not taking an action is making a decision. It’s a decision that comes with consequences. It is choosing to let things get worse. Don’t go there.

[sleestak]

FG, yes speaking at a meeting is scary. So are most things in life that are valuable.

What you need to do is figure out why you are scared. Is it admitting in public that you are an alkie? Is it talking about how you fucked up? Is it fear of being judged?

Or, and this is what I did, you can say 'Fuck it. I am scared but I tried it my way and it failed miserably. My way didn’t work therefore I am going to stop trying my way and do it their way because their way looks like it works.

My way was to give into the fear and not speak. My way was to not ask for help because pretending I had my shit together was more important than actually having my shit together. My way was to rely on my known to be faulty judgement instead of asking others for their ideas and thoughts.

Once I decided to get over myself and do what others in A.A. who had it together told me to do, it worked. And, after a while, my own faulty judgement stopped being so wrong.

Slee

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

I guess I am scared, on some level. I fear what I need to get over most is myself and being judgemental of others. As sad as that sounds, yes, I still judge others when I have no business doing so. When I am miserable, unhappy, etc, I am STILL placing myself above these people. Jesus.

[StGermain]

FGiE, have you gotten your license back yet? I see it’s been almost a year. Any chance of picking up another car sales job?

StG

[Tee]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Damn. I am so sorry for your loss, and I wish I wasn’t the inspiration for your donation, but I must tell you thank you, and I hope to be better than mine (and your) predecessors.

Thank you. I feel dumb now because I wasn’t looking for sympathy, it’s just a fact. My father was an alcoholic my whole life, since Vietnam. Sometimes he was drinking, most of the time he wasn’t. I think every time he drank it cost him something. But he was a good guy.

[keturah]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

I guess I am scared, on some level. I fear what I need to get over most is myself and being judgemental of others. As sad as that sounds, yes, I still judge others when I have no business doing so. When I am miserable, unhappy, etc, I am STILL placing myself above these people. Jesus.

To be quite frank, you are placing yourself above those people because you have one last ditch effort at keeping this non personal. You “lower” yourself by asking internet friends to give you money because you never have to look them in the eye.

[Chefguy]

@keturah

To be quite frank, you are placing yourself above those people because you have one last ditch effort at keeping this non personal. You “lower” yourself by asking internet friends to give you money because you never have to look them in the eye.

Well, that’s also the business model for every charity and politician on the planet, and yet we give them money despite them being strangers. The OP is at least someone we can relate to, and I hope that everyone who has had a comment for this thread has kicked in a few bucks by now out of common decency.

[Spice_Weasel]

@Chefguy

Well, that’s also the business model for every charity and politician on the planet, and yet we give them money despite them being strangers. The OP is at least someone we can relate to, and I hope that everyone who has had a comment for this thread has kicked in a few bucks by now out of common decency.

I think keturah is not criticizing him for asking for help here, but for limiting it to here. Foie Gras is avoiding the reality of his situation by keeping it on the internet and keeping himself mentally above other real life people who struggle with the same issue. He’s afraid to make it “real.” A plausible argument.

[Beckdawrek]

I may be a soft-y, but it seems to me FGE has splayed open his soul for all to see.
I have spent most of my life hiding in a corner, hoping no one notices me. I cannot even fathom telling my secrets to a board full of opinionated people. I, for one commend him for it. It has to be the hardest thing. Everyone should kick in a few bucks at least. We have all had problems.