Female oncologist in burqa

I go to a bodyworker (call her Helen) who has lots of female cancer patients as clients. She related this story told to her by one of those clients. IOW, this was told by the friend of a friend. I mean no disrespect to anyone’s religious or cultural practices. Just wondering about this situation, which happened at a major cancer center in the USA.

The cancer patient-- I’m going to call her Mary Lou-- was newly diagnosed with breast cancer, which is a very unsettling experience. Often you meet your surgeon first, have whatever surgery you’re going to have, and then meet your oncologist while you’re still getting used to having all or part of your breast(s) removed, still dealing with drainage tubes, and pretty much wishing you hadn’t ended up here. You might have chosen your oncologist, or might have been suggested/assigned, 'cause chances are, you don’t have the names of a bunch of oncologists in your proverbial Rolodex (dating myself).

A couple of weeks after her surgery, Mary Lou went to meet her oncologist. She waited in the examining room and in walks the doctor, a woman in full burqa. (See illustration– I believe we’re talking about picture #3 of 5.) Some of you may react by saying this couldn’t possibly have happened, and you might be right; I wasn’t there. But let’s proceed on the basis that it did happen.

Mary Lou told Helen later that she was very uncomfortable, not because of the full length garb, but because she couldn’t see the doctor’s face, including her eyes and mouth. Mary Lou didn’t feel she could communicate well or be sure she was being heard (not literally, of course, but heard.) It would be like only being able to talk to your oncologist on the phone.

Mary Lou was stumped, and so were Helen, and so was I when she told me the story. Hijab is one thing–no problem. Heck, many of us grew up communicating well with old-time nuns whose hair we never saw. But not to see your doctor’s eyes or mouth?? When you’re already terrified and vulnerable? Is Mary Lou’s (somewhat understandable) discomfort reason enough to find another doctor? She didn’t want to seem racist or xenophobic, and in truth, I don’t know what she actually did.

I don’t know any more of the details of this story, but I’m curious whether anyone else has had a similar experience.

Is it common for a woman to wear that garb when meeting with another woman? I thought they were intended for mixed company. Or were there men in the room as well?

I mean no cultural offense here, but I very much agree with Mary Lou. I would have been highly uncomfortable if I had been in her situation. I would’ve been uncomfortable just talking about a sinus infection let alone cancer treatment. A dress, a scarf, a head covering, no problem but I prefer to see the face and have a clear view of the eyes of a doctor treating me. It has absolutely nothing to do with the competence of the doctor, because I’m assuming she was qualified to perform her job. It has everything to do with my comfort level when discussing my care and treatment with my doctor.

There was a woman briefly employed to work with autistic children who wore the Niqab-- the garb that allows only the eyes to be visible. The kids kept trying to pull it off her face, and she quit after about two weeks. She was supposed to be an ABA therapist, and had gone through extensive training for that kind of work. I don’t know why no one had ever had a discussion with her about “What if…?” because autistic kids do stuff. Especially kids in ABA, who tend to have low language abilities.

As far as what Mary Lou should have done-- she should have said she wasn’t comfortable with that oncologist, and she wanted someone else. She didn’t need to give a reason. You get to be selfish when picking your personal doctor. You are not the head of personnel. You are an individual, who has a right to feel comfortable with your doctor. It’s pretty common for people to ask for doctors of a particular gender, and no one questions that. I once asked for a different doctor, because a doctor I got assigned to in the ER stank of cigarette smoke, and it was making me sick to my stomach. It wasn’t even the irony of a doctor who smoked-- it was just that the smell was repulsive in a guy who was getting up close and personal. I didn’t give a reason when I asked for a different doctor, though; I just said that I needed someone else.

If Burqa-doctor eventually has so many people refuse her services that she can’t do her job, she may have a conversation with personnel, and they may have to offer her an attractive severance package. But maybe the location where she works for some reason gets women who also wear burqas, and like seeing a doctor come in wearing one, so there was a demand. I don’t know. I wouldn’t want a doctor in one, and I’d ask for another doctor, no reason given. They’d probably tell me I’d have to wait, and that’s OK.

I know this is going to earn me a pile on, but I find the image of the woman in the burqa downright unsettling. If I saw someone walking down the street wearing one, I would know what it is, understand (as best as I can)why she wears it and would not stare or show any outward disrespect. My visceral reaction upon first glance is discomfort. Not because of the religious angle but literally, to me, it’s a freaky image.

That being said, the Dr. deserves a chance. Maybe a second visit may be warranted to see if Marylou finds it less disconcerting after a little more time spent with the doc. If she still doesn’t feel like she can get the care she feels like she needs, I think it’s her right to find another doctor. This person is possibly playing a life or death role in her life and I think her relationship with whomever treats her is a crucial part of her recovery.

Just an experience of mine;When I lived in Saudi Arabia, I had a Saudi woman technician who wore the told hijab that covered her face. When she was with me alone she would ‘flip’ it up , then ‘flip’ it down when a male would come in the room.

I’d be uncomfortable too. Same thing if a male doctor walked in and I couldn’t see his face. The situation is kind of as personal as it gets and it would be off-putting to have the other person dressed in such a manner as to render them impersonal.

Especially at nighttime. Must be terrifying.

This seems like the solution. I would ask the doctor if she could do this. If yes, then I’ll see if we get along ok. If not, I’d need anther doctor.

However, I have to wonder why no one in the office prepared her. I had an allergist who was in a quadriplegic and the office let me know that one of the nurses would be doing all the exam, and why. I had no problem since it was explained in a very matter-of-fact way. Seems like the office could have made this encounter less stressful.

I wouldn’t care. I would be there to be cared for, and frankly my concern would be all about me, not the dress or vagaries of the qualified specialist.

“Dress,” “vagaries”?? It wasn’t about the doctor’s dress; it was about not being able to see her face, especially her eyes. What if your doctor wore sunglasses and a mask over his mouth and never took them off? Not saying that doctor could not give excellent care, but you’re newly diagnosed with a scary disease, have just had surgery where they lopped off some of your favorite body parts, and you meet the doc who is going to walk you through the valley of the shadow (as it were). Unsettling, to say the least.

I don’t know how it came out. I’ll ask the next time I see Helen. Thanks for the comments.

We don’t see many burqas around here (plenty of hijabs) but when I have, it hasn’t bothered me–I guess 'cause I grew up around nuns. I think they’re kind of mysterious and alluring. Not a quality I’m looking for in my oncologist.

Speaking of headscarves, as a girl, I hardly ever left the house without a headscarftied under my chin or with the ends wrapped around and tied behind my neck. Not sure why. We didn’t own a convertible or anything. <shrug> Maybe because it was still the days of wearing hats and a scarf approximated.

I wouldn’t care: I object to black clothes for various reasons, yet having a Somali doctor treat me in her native dress for my broken arm was fine and I respected her choice. Barmy as I think most religious imperatives may be.

I would be happy to be treated by unseen robots if they cured the pain. And what about all those Fantasy type stories where the injured are taken to temples or remote fastnesses to be cared for by dark hooded taciturn monks ?

Most women in Britain wore headscarves tied under their chins until the 1980s, and then they didn’t.

It was somehow unsettling when they wore clear plastic headscarves. And maybe clear plastic macs to go with it.

I live near and frequently pass through a neighborhood where burqas are definitely more numerous than other places. I see them frequently but still find them unsettling. I have an issue with masks in public, except for obvious Halloween ones at Halloween time. I have a problem with protesters wearing masks, and I have a problem with people in general walking down the street being unidentifiable. And yes I acknowledge it’s my problem and not anyone else’s. Then there’s the whole thing with women’s freedom/rights/whatever, and the cognitive dissonance I have between yes they can do what they want, but why are they wanting to cover from head to toe but getting an education and driving cars and every other freedom available to them in the US, but not available to them where they’re from, is OK but showing your face is not.

Well that was a babble. I would ask for a different doctor and not put a reason around it unless pressed to do so.

No and you are correct.

Small children? Not teenagers? If not teenagers, the idea even then to wear a Niqab is not needed (although probably there are the extreme salafistes weirdos who have invented some reasons for themselves).

it is the Niqab not the hijab.

So as I understand it, that garment has a specific practical purpose. If one rich, old muslim man has 3 wives, and one of them is smoking hot and somewhat…unsatisfied…with the arrangement, there will be statistically 2 unmarried men out there who are rather lonely and horny.

Men are going to pursue women far more vigorously if they know they are extremely attractive.

So this burka is a boot, used to prevent women from being pursued by more attractive men they would otherwise probably have sex with.

Would it make you uncomfortable if black people who are the descendants of former slaves wore chains to work? Since there are bullshit variants of religion that used to preach slavery was morally right for the white man.

I say, as a liberal, fuck political correctness. A bullshit religion is a bullshit religion, and just because a bunch of people believe in something doesn’t mean their beliefs can’t be challenged.

Thank you for your comments. However, I did not mean for this thread to be a commentary on the sartorial habits (as it were) of other countries, cultures, religions, historical figures, aliens, or non-humans (robots).

Anyway, for the umpteenth time (addressing those who seem to be missing the point), my question was not about the doctor’s manner of dress, but about the fact that her manner of dress included having her face covered.

<tap, tap> Is this thing on?

I say that unless this is the only doctor or if there’s some well established proof that this doctor is at the top of her field, pick someone else. How can you trust someone to follow mainstream science if they can’t even stop themselves from falling for bullshit religious beliefs?

As a side note, I consider all religions equally bullshit, and would do the same thing if the doctor were openly displaying religious symbols.

And, as I said, which you don’t seem to get, I wouldn’t care at all if they were all hooded and I couldn’t see their faces.

Not masks though, that’s because I detest masks. Even those Venetian Carnival masks.

I would choose a doctor whose face I could see. My health, my body, my choice who takes care of it. I want to be completely comfortable and relaxed with my doctor. I want to be able to see their expressions when they tell me things. Not being able to see any of their face, including their eyes would make me unable to read them fully. That would make me uncomfortable.

“What? Sorry, I wasn’t listening, I was distracted by your cloak. Hood. Pile of bedsheets. Whatever that is. Wait, what? I’m a racist now? Again? Damn.”