Yes, but nobody does actual work in those things. They’re worn only to walk in processions. Nobody would wear a capirote (why the capital C, are you confusing Spanish with German?) to visit a patient. Nobody would wear one while indoors. And cofrades aren’t monks; they’re not even tertiaries. The fraternities do not live in community or anything like that; their purpose is only to keep whichever images they take in procession and to take them out. Confusing a cofrade with a monk is like confusing Bill Clinton with Han Solo.
Fair’s fair: if the liripipe slung over my robe doesn’t bother her, her burka doesn’t bother me. A good hand scrubbing and a simple surgical mask would assuage my concerns, but if she prefers a bag over her head rather than the dangly string thing, more power to her as long as it reduces transmission of germs to me. Unseen eyes? No different than when I’m dealing with my clients’ sensitive issues over the phone. Not being able to Sternely cry out the lowest oath of a scavenger at my doctor is of no concern to me.
Where I draw the line is at medical woo. A big no to faith healers, despite their Christ ostensibly moving through them. A big no to herbalists and astrologers, despite one of my kin writing The English Physitian, Complete Herbal, and Astrological Judgement of Diseases from the Decumbiture of the Sick. A big no to unproven traditional medicine such as smoke ceremonies and acupuncture. A big no to new-age nonsense, ranging from chakras to breatharianism. As long as a doctor applies the highest standards of evidence based scientific medicine, I’ll be a happy camper (or an ex-camper if things don’t work out), and I’ll be very glad to have her trying to keep me alive, despite the severe hangup she has over gender roles.
Aside from urgent care, I check out the medical reputations of my physicians with other doctors and nurses who are familiar with them. Noticeably, neither religion nor dress has ever been raised by or with these contacts.
BTW, bigotry affects were doctors chose to locate, so keep that in mind if you want to keep the best doctors. For example, Québéc’s problem with cultural bigotry has been used to lure doctors from there to Ontario: “We don’t care what’s on your head. We care what’s in it.” In Toronto, the mother tongue of about half of the people is not one of our official languages.
Yes the Niqab
I see women wearing them while shopping at Walmart. Not commonly, but enough to sure as heck remember that I’ve seen them. More than once. So they do wear them indoors. And maybe in some situations where you are moving in and out of the presence of men, it’s easier just to keep it on.
I would definitely change doctors, but that is only because I have major hearing difficulties and rely unconsciously upon LIP READING to understand what is being said, even on a one-one basis. Any person covering their mouth (and that includes docs in surgical masks) are effectively incomprehensible to me. Thankfully, by the time I have to have an encounter with a doc in a mask, I’m about to go nigh-nighs for a little sleep. 
But having to have a regular medical appointment with someone in a full burqa, nope, not gonna happen.
:dubious:
Did I say it was common? Did I even say it happened frequently?
Hell, the Westboro asshole clan made a living outa sueing people…so I think it not beyond the realm of possibilty that a monetarily motivated “muslim” could find a similar scam.
I vote for new doctor (if that’s what she wants).
Personally, I’m uncomfortable with anyone who allows religious beliefs to interfere, even slightly, with the job at hand. That includes the fundie engineer I worked with who insisted that a bible be present at every conference, desktop, lunch and even beside drawings in the lab. It includes the Muslim crane operator who stopped (in mid lift, no less) to pray* multiple times when I was working as a deckhand. And it would certainly include anyone who wears a mask that interferes with communication (assuming it’s for religious reasons).
*He was fired after only a few days. Leaving a load untended and swinging is dangerous.
Religion can be loosely defined as a series of collective beliefs used to explain the unexplainable. Without scientific validation to throttle those beliefs there is no limit to what people will believe or act on those beliefs.
A Niqab is the result of one of those belief systems. It’s purpose is the sexual subjugation of women dating back to the creation of the religion. It certainly has a basis in modesty. While modesty and dress codes exist in all cultures they evolve over time (absent outside factors).
I personally find a Niqab oppressive to women and clown creepy. I find it disturbing that a person trained in a medical science would wear one. Beyond that a Niqab represents a belief system that objects to my lifestyle. It has the same visual impact as klan robes.
The burqa is a customary dress worn by inhabitants of rural Afghanistan and Central Asia. It’s not commonly seen even in most Muslim majority countries outside of Afghanistan and I’ve never seen one in real life ever. Forgive me if I find it extremely difficult to believe that your preumably English speaking western educated doctor actually chooses too wear one. Are you sure you aren’t confusing it with an abaya w/niqab? That would be much more believable. In rich Gulf countries (the source of many female doctors) office workplaces often mandate “national dress” for nationals of Gulf nations, which for women is the abaya, similar to how western offices might mandate a tie and jacket. The niqab is not part of the mandate (in the offices that I have seen).
When I lived in downtown Edmonton there was a muslim family living in my building. The man would walk with two women wearing black burqas walking behind him. I only saw them a handful of times but it was always quite shocking to see. I always wondered if they were his wives or wife/daughter/sister.
I would be pretty uncomfortable being examined by someone who I couldn’t even see. I’d be fine with hijab or some sort of head scarf but seeing the person I am communicating with is important. Especially about something serious like cancer.
As someone whose anxiety (mildly) flares up talking to people on the phone…I think I could adjust to someone in a niqab, provided she was approachable and friendly. Eyes, body language, okay. I can do that.
A burka I don’t think I could deal with. Dealing with doctors, making sure they really hear you, is intimidating and difficult at the best of times. I wouldn’t say no out of hand, but I’m not confident I’d see her a second time. I don’t know I’d get enough reassurance from someone I can’t see.
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Responding to a poster’s comments that it “only exists in a neaderthal’s right wing fantasy world” clearly is an insult. You can disagree without calling the poster a neanderthal. This thread has had a lot of varied opinions without resorting to insults and I want to keep it that way.
You crossed a line- rein it in.
Well, you might be right, but your *oncologist * is the one doctor who is likely to relate to you as a dying person, rather than just a medical case… When you are feeling lost in a medical nightmare, it’s nice to see a caring face.
(I don’t know if the original partient is dying, or just has a lump that’s been slowly growing for the last 85 years)
I met my current GP when she was working locally part time doing all the women’s business the Turkish Muslim male head of the practice could not. Now, I wouldn’t go to a doctor who couldn’t touch or examine me but it is a very busy practice and having a woman in two hours a week for hands on stuff seems enough for his female patients.
I would have more trouble with accidentally seeing a dr who considers it wrong to touch me than I would a dr who expressed their religion via dress. I am ok with not seeing faces if I see skills. I do live in an area where face coverings are not all that unusual. I may have felt differently before I got more used to it.
I followed the woman doctor to her general practice a few suburbs down rather than seeing two doctors for one body.
I’m not sure what I distrust more, the whole “a friend of a friend said it happened”, or the assumption that it’s beyond the wit of even the most anxious patient to say “I’m sorry, I can’t quite make out what you’re saying behind your burqa/surgical mask”, or the implication that there are doctors of any kind, and particularly specialist oncologists, who are so untrained in bedside manner as not to try to put a patient at ease, ask if it’s all right to talk in a particular way, or even, especially in the case of cancer, to offer the opportunity to have a recording of what’s said, which is not uncommon practice.
If you are not familiar with doctors who are “so untrained in bedside manner as not to try to put a patient at ease”, PatrickLondon, then doctors in London must be very different from many doctors I have met in the United States. Sadly, I have found doctors like that in Texas, Illinois, Wisconsin, and California.
In and of itself, seeing a doctor in a hijab would not scare me or turn me off, if I were assured by the referring doctor that she was good at her job. Sure, I’d be a bit surprised to see that, just as I’d be surprised to learn that my doctor was a Lubavitcher or a turban-wearing Sikh. But again, if my doctor told me “Dr. Cohen/Singh/Abdul” is the best in the field," I’d take his word for it.
That said, a Lubavitcher OR Sikh OR Islamic doctor who wears unusual garb should KNOW that his/her garb will startle some people, and should develop the people skills to put patients at ease. A sense of humor goes a long way, in that regard.
I would be very uncomfortable because when I deal with people I depend on being able to “read” a whole face – they’re smiling with their mouth, but are their eyes smiling? Does this person “look honest”? Is he/she saying something that his/her expression contradicts? Do they look impatient and distracted?
“Smiling eyes” and “honest face” are, of course, in the eye of the beholder; however, there is a lot of interesting research that addresses these things and how humans figure out who to trust (and not trust) and how amazingly quickly these impressions form.
I couldn’t roll with this doctor and would change providers immediately. I would be fine with her in a classroom, as a colleague, a n accountant, and so on, but where my health is concerned I need to establish firm trust and wouldn’t be able to do so without seeing her whole face.
A burqa wouldn’t bother me at all, but as a hearing impaired individual I rely heavily on reading lips to understand conversation, so that would be a deal-breaker.
This thread isn’t about the hijab.