That’s Gauderian Razor. If I’m going to make up phrases, the least I do is get them right.
I disagree. I don’t think were any victims in this story.
Yeah. That would really suck. :rolleyes:
Such a fine example of American decency. You do your fellow man proud. :rolleyes:
Oh please, ya’ll the guy wasn’t “beaten nearly to death”! You need to get off that. I’m a nurse, and trust me, I know the ER nurses. Savannah is a small town and people talk. He had a black eye and some pretty bad bruises, but he got up and walked out of the hospital under his own power. No cracked ribs or anything. Ya’ll are talking like he was in ICU on life support. He was pretty banged up, but nothing life-threatening. Drunk guys can’t fight worth a damn anyway. I doubt most of the punches thrown were even landed. The link I posted earlier showed his picture, but now it has been taken down for some reason. And Bennet isn’t some 98-lb weaking, either. He’s a pretty muscular hard-scrabble looking fellow.
Like I said in my post, which everyone ignored btw, the guy probably didn’t deserve a 5 on 1 beating for lifting a wallet, but hey, if you do something like that in a bar in the wee hours of the morning, you take your chances.
People here in Savannah were outraged at first, yes it was reported at first like the soldiers totally did this because he was gay and they singled him out as he was leaving Blaine’s Back Door. The story was misreported at first. Even the local gay-activist spokespeople have dropped this guy like a hot potato. They don’t want to go on record as speaking up for him anymore, that’s how bad this guy’s record is.
I think the soldier’s use of “I beat that fucking faggot up” was much in the same way one might call him a “son of a bitch” or a “prick” or a “mother-fucking jerk off”.
We all say stuff when we are mad and drunk.
These guys had no problem with the dude until Bennett lifted the wallet. Whoever said that if this guy weren’t gay there wouldn’t even be a story here is absolutely right.
The fact that this guy is gay has nothing to do with the fact that he is penny-ante low-life criminal. Idiot criminals come in all orientations.
Thanks for the inside info. But to me, the story here now is this:
In addition to which I remain skeptical of the claims that faggotry had nothing whatsoever to do with the level of the response, whether the guy walked out of the ER or no, for reasons already tackled by others in this thread. I’ve got my hands full (oh, baby) with the vigilante issue as it is, so I’m not going there, but just in case anybody was wondering where I might stand on that one. 
As for you, Greathouse, can you answer my point about the fact that the soldiers were not only also criminals, but, by the standards of our society, which puts damage against human beings above damage against property or theft, worse criminals? If ten more guys came along to beat the crap out of them for their crime, would that also be okie-dokie, sweetiepie?
As far as I can see there are two unrealated issues. If he was behaving in an anti-social behaviour he deserves the results of his action. Being the victim of crime myself (three incidents in the past two months) I myself would like to see the crap beaten out of those people who prey on law abiding citizens. Rule number one is do not be an asshole. The second issue is if it was purely a gay bashing incident. If it was then the soldiers should be prosecuted with no mercy. You would think we live in an enlightened age where you can do what you want as long as it does not negatively impact on anyone eles. Why should people be so concerned about peoples sexual preferences that it turns them into hate-mongers.
Oh yes, I agree, there was something wrong with a 5 on 1 pile on, but it seems the guys were ok with him until he lifted the wallet. I don’t think the lifting of the wallet is what magically revealed that the guy was gay, no? I am thinking they already knew he was, yet were socializing with him anyway. I also don’t think his sexulaity would have come out during the fight, “Wait! Don’t hit me, I’m GAAAAY!” So I think it is reasonable to surmise the soldiers already knew before the wallet was stolen.
Savannah is very much a town of “communities” that all seem to get along pretty well and be pretty tolerable of each other. Savannah is not like the rest of Georgia, the redneck factor isn’t quite as high, so don’t make pact judgements just because this is Georgia. If these guys have been stationed here at Fort Stewart for any amount of time, socializing with gays in the historic district is probably a pretty regular thing. Again, I feel the trouble started with the theft, then the soldiers, in anger and disbeleif at the guys level of crassness, used the verbal assault of “faggot” agaisnt him. You always want to hurt someone worse than they have hurt you. I am not saying that is right, but it is human nature, especially when you mix anger and drunkness.
Which is why you’re a sick fuck.
Even if you weren’t a sick fuck, and even if it were somehow ethically acceptable for the victim of a theft to beat the thief, there is no moral or ethical justification for the four soldiers who weren’t victims of theft to join in.
Gee, Ensign, not only are you too civilized for your own good, you don’t even know the proper behavior when you have teh Gay. In New York, if someone calls you a women’s name during a discussion, you’re supposed to ANNIHILATE them by calling them a more horrible women’s name, like Hortense or Gertrude, or, I’ve got it – TALLUHAH.
Actually, sulamith, there is no clear statement regarding the sexuality of the beatdown victim. ‘Faggot’ may just have been used to be insulting; Og knows I’ve heard enough teens toss around gay slurs to one another as insults, friendly and otherwise. If they are all accurate, I need to reassess my impression of the homosexual-to-heterosexual ratio of the human population.
Yes. They broke the law when they beat his ass. No, I do not agree that they should be punished. When the guy stole the wallet he lost all ability to complain about getting beaten up. If he hadn’t have taken the wallet then he wouldn’t have gotten beat on. I still do not see anything wrong with what the soldiers did.
Nope. The soldiers did not do anything to the 10 hypothetical men. If they had done something to deserve an ass beating then they should get it. As it is, these soldiers were punishing this guy for being a dumbass and trying to steal. In this case, don’t steal and you won’t get beat up.
I’m sure you hold opinions that would make me consider you a sick fuck. Since it doesn’t matter what I think of you, I’ll just say again that I don’t give any sort of a fuck what you think of me.
Don’t need a moral or ethical justification. The guy deserved to have his ass kicked and he got it. Nope, I can’t see a problem with it. The guy lost his right to a fair fight when he decided to steal.
Can you bleeeding hearts drop the vigilante strawman please? If this guy stole a wallet and the 5 soldiers met later, tracked him down and then put a beating on him then yes, you would have a point, what they had done would be reprehensible and they should be punished to the full extent of the law and would be absolutely wrong not to have contacted the police.
That’s not what happened though.
These guys were drinking together, the thief tried to steal a wallet, they caught him doing it and he got his ass kicked. Totally apropriate response. If somebody punches me, should I just walk away and look for a cop to tattle on him? If I see a man raping a woman, should I wait until he’s done and follow him to get his license number so he can be tracked down days later after he’s raped another dozen women? Fuck no, and anyone who tries to lift a wallet deserves to get punched in the snoot by the wallet’s owner and his friends. Vigilante justice? Not even close. I won’t go so far as to say that those people condemning the soldiers are everything that’s wrong with America today, but goddamn if you aren’t a big part of it. I’d hate to live in a world run by your rules. No responsibility, no acountability. No criminal that can’t be coddled, no victim that can’t be disenfranchised. Everything run by the nanny government, so just sit quietly and do as you’re told. What a pathetic place that would be.
That’s argumentum ad populum. By that argument, it’s immoral to be gay because a majority might be against it.
I can have fun with moral relativism too! :wally
So you agree that the five soliders are not criminals and should not be prosecuted?
A person is entitled to use reasonable force to defend his property, or the property of another.
Any force exerted after the wallet had been recovered, and after any threat of retaliation was gone, is force that crosses the line from privilege into assault.
Based upon the information as presented in this thread and the linked articles, I do so agree.
Do you think it took five big strong guys to get a wallet back from one fag?
Nope, but if he wasn’t a “fag”, then yes.
[/sarcasm]
We don’t have all the information. If everything is as described, they should get a slap on the wrist, perhaps 30 or so days and a fine and community service, as this happened in the heat of the moment. If this were a planned retribution, that’d be another story.