Projection.
Yeah, I’d say the bystander effect was definitely involved, aggravated by the fact that they were kids and they were out there getting high. The part where one kid was complaining about his friend bogarting the blunt after the victim’s head went under was particularly egregious. Didn’t even harsh their buzz.
Really all it takes is one sociopath and the rest being susceptible to peer pressure. But it’s kind of a moot point to me whether you are a sociopath or behave like one.
“For although psychopaths are a small minority, it seems significant that whenever organized and militant hate exist a psychopath is the leader, and if, for instance, one hundred disgruntled and frustrated individuals fall in line behind one psychopath then, in essence, we are concerned with the actions of one hundred and one psychopaths.” Sidney Potier-Pressure Point-1962
Did the kid in the vid actually use the term “bogarting”? Ironic that that is probably going to be Bogie’s most enduring legacy.
I have to disagree that the kids should have gone in after him. All I have to go on is the video, but it seems relevant that:
- The man entered the water of his own accord “Fully clothed”
- The man appeared to be high or drunk (" . . . a junkie")
- The teens sound like they are high or drunk - in no shape to go swimming
- This is Florida. Where there is water, there may be alligators. You would have to be a complete idiot to jump into a pond in Florida after anyone who is an adult and went in willingly.
- If, as I suspect, they are high or drunk, the kids would be getting themselves in a poopload of trouble by calling 911.
- I also think their altered state is affecting the teens judgment
They should have called 911 anyway, and I’m certainly not saying I’d be happy if the Celtling had been part of that group. But to those arguing that they should have gone in to save him? I say a bunch of kids drowning too was not going to help the situation.
Did ANYONE at all here say they should have gone in after him?
I just read the rest of the article. The kids were smoking marijuana. Now I’ve never tried marijuana, but I do understand that it makes you laugh a lot. They were not acting like sociopaths, they were acting like people who are high.
I do agree with that. The inability to respond to an emergency is one of the reasons I’ve never tried the stuff.
He walked into the water of his own accord, fully clothed. We’ll never know why. He got a long way from the bank though, so he must have been able to swim a bit.
Who are you disagreeing with here?
Who has actually asserted that they should have gone in after him?
And the fact that once they were no longer high, only one of them appeared to show any remorse and the other one kept grinning? How does that factor into your assessment?
A few examples of what sounds like it to me:
Sure sounds like Pippers thinks they should have gone in.
emphasis mine.
emphasis mine. Granted, Oct. says “reasonable aid” but we all agree that 911 couldn’t have responded in time, so what are we really blaming these kids for?
Laughing while high.
emphasis mine elbows clearly differentiates between failing to assist and calling 911.
The consequences of simply walking down the street can be getting shot by the police. In their place would you really call 911? Are you maybe failing to take responsibility for the reality that we as taxpayers have allowed to develop in these kid’s lives?
They were raised to avoid the police at all costs, because they might get shot. They were raised to assume that the system would suck them in at the first opportunity, so why would they make that call?
Look at how anxious everybody is to make criminals of them. I hear them laughing at a drunk or high man getting into a pond with his clothes on, and then yelling at him to go back. I hear them being teenagers who are high, dealing with a traumatic event when they realize he is in trouble. I hear them refusing to help (Florida, gators, dumbass move to get into that pond.)
And I hear them get real quiet when they realize he really isn’t coming back up. I hear them trying to show teenage bravado with the “Are you afraid to see a dead body” discussion.
People keep using that word “remorse.” They did nothing that in any way hastened this man’s death. There is no way that 911 was going to get there in time to do anything but cause trouble for those kids.
As for the grinning, I can’t be sure. But I’m a nervous laugher. I laugh at the worst of times. It doesn’t mean I’m not heartbroken, it’s a sign that I am.
Why the fuck are you making excuses for these guys? Why are you denying facts?
These weren’t nervous people laughing. These were people who saw him struggling, and mocked him for being in the situation in the first place. They weren’t nervous. They were making fun. They were horribly and unethically indifferent.
It doesn’t goddamned fucking matter whether they could have succeeded. The point is, they didn’t fucking try to do anything. They could have tried themselves. They could have called for help. They could have just screamed in hopes that someone heard him.
But they didn’t. They laughed at him like it was some crazy video. They mocked him like those assholes on the prank channels.
What’s more, you’re not even one of the shitty Dopers. So why the fuck are you defending these deplorable assholes? The only reason I am not gunning for their heads is that they are kids and maybe, with proper rehabilitation, they can be cured of their psychopathic indifference to this man’s tragedy.
This is not something like a high school prank. It’s not something to merely be disappointed in your kid over. Quit making up lies and bullshit so you can defend what is clearly wrong.
And, believe me. I’m being nice. I’m trying my best to hold this in, in an effort to get you to listen. Because you have kids, and I do not want them learning from their father that this sort of thing is remotely acceptable. So I have to try to get you listen, rather than attack you.
But it’s really, really fucking hard.
Oh shut up you sanctimonious little tit–maybe try getting out of the house once in a while so you can perhaps get a tiny grasp of what real life is all about. Nobody has to listen to you, nobody wants to listen to you and nobody’s going to listen to you because you basically know fuck all about, well, anything.
So once more, with five part harmony and feeling–SHUT UP, BIG TARD.
You could air condition hell as fast as you’ve been wagging your finger today, **BigTard **
And this is when I realized this thread is in the Pit.
BigT, you’ve got rage issues. I read TruCelt’s post, thought to myself, ''Are you fucking kidding me?" and then decided to ignore it. Clearly this is not a person who can be persuaded out of his position, and it doesn’t matter if he can’t, because he has zero impact on how the case is handled and his opinion will probably never affect anything other than this message board. Sometimes people are just wrong and it’s okay. Save your ire for shit that really matters. I save it mostly for the rape apologists and bigots, but YMMV.
I say this as someone who used to blow a gasket at every little thing on these boards until I realized it’s not my problem or responsibility to change every wrong person’s mind, and it actually made me a kind of a control-freak to believe people should all think like me anyway. Who says I’m always right, or righteous, anyhow? It’s a long and multi-faceted story. My point is, chill out.
sorry, but this is horseshit. They were mocking him. I have tried marijuana. I smoked it every day for many years. I still had empathy. Even high I would have found their behavior appalling. You can blame the munchies and giggles on being high. You can blame mocking someone as they die in your presence on being a sociopath.
After watching the video I think the most callous one is an Uruk-hai and the lesser Orcs just go with it.
If what those people did isn’t a display of psychopathy I don’t know what is, at the very least they should be put under very close scrutiny to either find out what they’ve been up to until now or have them go through psychiatric evaluation.
I burn some green daily. Hell, I’m soaking in it now.
You are wrong.
Apropos, I hope. As a Hydrographic Surveyor back in the day, I did a pipelay/dredge project in Southeast Asia. The Barge Superintendent had a little mutt dog named ‘Scrapiron’ that hung out mostly in the tower and was the barge mascot. On the way back to port at the end of the project the Barge Engineer (who was much younger and didn’t like the Super.) took the poor dog and tossed him overboard. Some folks knew what happened and word started to filter out through ‘The Oil Patch’. Never worked with or met the guy again but I hope his new nickname of “Dog-Killer Fields” followed him forever. 35 years later it still hurts to remember that useless bastard.