Refusing to eat at any “chain” restaurants. As if there isn’t a decent meal to be had at any of them.
Refusing to eat any fast food. You can love good food and still like some greasy crap now and then. One of Julia Child’s favorite foods was McDonald’s french fries.
Yes, but this is a bad analogy because eating (non-pet) meat is legal and generally socially acceptable.
Yes. To the police. Because it is illegal to eat other people’s dogs.
To the dog-eater? Assuming it was legal and my friend didn’t care, yes. In my experience, Dopers have names for people who impose their values on other people.
“Self-righteous fundie” is the nicest of these names.
Is he eating it with ketchup or with mustard?
Not a food snob here. I have yet to meet a food I didnt like!!
as for other food snobs, my only pet peeve is Diet Sodas in fast food places. I mean, COME ON! A super size number 3…with a diet?? who ya fooling here? If you are at a fast food place, you might as well live it up. dont think it makes you smarter or better to order a diet!!!
Certainly edible food can be found at chain restaurants, but the more money I give them, the less I have to give to the locals, the people who live where I do, who are putting heart and soul into their one restaurant. I don’t refuse to eat at them, but I certainly avoid them as much as possible.
I just get tired of being mocked and harrassed by plain-food-only types because I like to eat interesting/different things occasionally. I don’t shit (metaphorically) on your Kraft Dinner, so step off about my Spicy Thai shrimp and tofu,
I am so sick of O’Charlies. The only blody reason we ever eat there is because it’s food-neutral; there’s nothing exotic so nobody feels like they got stiffed. I am so not eating there again. And they acually do have decent food.
Come to think of it, most places seem a lot more upscape nowadays. Chains, small chains, even fast food places seem to have much nicer food. Is it just me?
I know that you’ve retracted the generalization, but the substance of your position still seems to be that vegans and vegetarians are more prone to this sort of snobbery than other people.
I’m a vegetarian, and i never feel any desire whatsoever to lecture anyone else about their meat-eating habits. My partner eats meat, and i’ve been known to cook meat for her, and for guests when we have a barbecue. I never make any comments to people who are eating with me in restaurants if they choose to eat meat.
Yet, despite all this, i’m constantly assailed with questions about why i choose not to eat meat, asked how long i’ve been doing it (with gasps of amazement when i tell them “over 12 years”), asked if i miss it, and then subjected to an earnest discourse on why my the person in question “could never give up meat.” It gets a little tiresome.
Too many meat-eaters assume that, because their own dietary preference is generally considered the “default” option in America, they have a right to question what others do. I’ve even been asked if i would “force” my children to eat vegetarian, to which i usually respond by asking if they “force” their children to eat meat.
There’s enough self-righteous moralizing and food snobbery among meat-eaters that they should be a little careful about casting stones at vegetarians.
Eh. I see it two ways. Yes, supporting local business is nice, and I definitely do that. But there are locals employed at the chains. And not just business owners, but real working-class people like waiters, cooks, busboys, etc. They all need jobs, and there aren’t enough local small business owners to employ them all.
Right, and a vegan’s problem with your eating meat is with the death of the animal, not with the mastication of the meat. I still see it as pretty similar: you’ve both got a problem with how the meal was procured.
Daniel
This is me. I won’t even dine at Ruth’s Cris.* How’s that for snobbery?!
Actually, Iv’e a good reason. There’s quite a bit of local talent here and I’d rather discover what they have to offer than dine at a chain.
*I have, in fact, eaten at Ruth’s Cris Steakhouse. I just won’t go back.
So, as a vegan, you’re morally comfortable with eating road kill? Or an animal that died of old age? If so, you’re the first vegan I’ve met who is.
There’s no vegan I’ve met who is OK with their own mastication of meat, regardless of how it’s obtained.
I’d have the same problem if the person also offered me a green salad of veggies he stole from his neighbor. If I didn’t know where the dog or veggies came from, I’d have no problem eating either. If he stole either and fed it to someone else, I’d be very upset with him for the theft, but not a whit upset with the person who ate the food. And I’m actually in the minority for being morally outraged by theft for its own sake. Most people are not (according to Kohlberg, et al.)
Food is only a moral issue if you make it into one. It’s not a moral issue by default.
Well, if it will make you feel better, next time you ask why i’m a vegetarian, i’ll just say “None of your fucking business,” rather than offering a calm and rational explanation.
First off, I’m not a vegan; the fact that I understand where they’re coming from doesn’t mean I’m one a them. I eat fish, I eat dairy, I eat eggs; when I buy a bratwurst for my wife and she doesn’t finish it, I’ll sometimes have a bite or two.
Second, I’ve known plenty of vegans who had no problem eating roadkill venison, and while I’ve never asked a vegan whether they’d eat an animal that died of old age, I can’t imagine the ones who based their objections to meat on the death of the animal would have an objection. However, I invite you to ask the next PETA representative you meet just this question.
Assuming that your problem is with the immorality of the act instead of with the illegality of the act (a distinction Susan correctly points out above), then your problem is of the same type that a vegan has with the eating of flesh: they’ve got a problem with an act committed in the obtainment of that food, just as you do.
Again, though, if you never object to any act so long as it’s legal, then you’re correct to draw a distinction between yourself and vegans on this front. Just as long as you don’t object to their perfectly legal selfrighteousness, that is.
Daniel
If I asked for an explanation, and you started talking to me about nitrates, vitamins, proteins, and hormones, I would consider that an acceptable explanation. Start blathering on about karma or somesuch and my eyes may start to glaze over.
However, I grew up near Eugene, OR, which is where the old hippies come to die. Most of them won’t wait for you to ask. Apparently sitting in the park eating a beef sandwitch is equivilent to running around yelling “lecture me about bovine growth hormone, please!”
I don’t really care if you are a vegetarian because you are allergic to meat, or don’t like eating death, or because your Rice Krispies told you to one morning. As long as you spare me the militant prostletizing (on any subject), I have no problem with you.
Well, that sounds reasonable to me. I thought Ruth’s Chris sucked, considering the price.
I see.
So, when you ask somebody to explain why they do something, what you really want is an explanation that conforms to your own sensibilities, rather than one that actually reflects the person’s own position. If that’s the case, you’re not really asking for an explanation at all; you’re just seeking affirmation or your own worldview.
Furthermore, you complained earlier about the moralizing of vegetarians, but now you seem to associate this sort of moralizing with “blathering about karma or somesuch.” I hate to break it to you, but there are moral and ethical issues related to vegetarianism that extend well beyond esoteric notions such as karma.
You say that you’re happy to llisten to explanations about nitrates and vitamins and proteins and hormone. Well, many issues such as this have a moral component for many vegetarians. For example, i might object to an excessive amount of hormones and antibiotics in meat on health grounds, but i might also object because these things often co-exist with (indeed, are often the result of) factory farming practices that are extremely cruel to the animals.
There are many other moral dimensions to this issue. For example, the meat preparation industry has about the worst OSHA record of any industry in the United States, and is notorious for dangerous working conditions at very low rates of pay. Read Eric Schlosser’s Fast Food Nation for some examples. My decisions not to eat meat is, in part, based on labor practices i find morally repugnant. Of course, i realize that the fruit and vegetable farms of America are often not much better, which is why i make an effort to shop at my local farmers’ market and to buy organic and/or locally produced goods whenever i can.
Another of my reasons for not eating meat involves the global politics of food production and distribution, whereby huge amounts of vegetable protein are used to feed cows and other animals for human consumption. This is an extremely inefficient use of the world’s protein resources. See Susan George’s How the Other Half Dies: The Real Reasons for World Hunger for further explanation.
I’m not trying to convince you to be a vegetarian. As i said before, i don’t tell anyone else how to eat. I’m just trying to show you that, in contrast to your simplistic scenario of science versus karma, it is possible to have moral and ethical reasons for vegetarianism that are also rooted in a strong scientific and rational framework.
And it’s simply stupid to suggest, as you and some others have have done, that food choices have nothing to do with morality. It might surprise you to know this, but the simple statement “I eat meat,” just like the statement “I don’t eat meat,” implies a certain moral and ethical outlook. I’m not saying one is better than the other, just that they both reflect certain moral and ethical worldviews.
No, I guess you’re not. Actually, Mike Royko wrote an excellent column in the summer of '92 (IIRC) basically going apeshit (in a funny sarcastic way, of course) about people who put ketchup on their dogs. For me, Chicago hot dogs are a religious institution. You just don’t screw round with that kind of tradition. And putting ketchup on a dog? That’s plain blasphemy.
But don’t let me stop you. 
Guinness? Fuck that shit. PABST BLUE RIBBON!!
Sounds like you’ve just had bad experiences with vegetarians. I’ve had many vegetarian friends, even vegan girlfriends, but not one ever has tried to convert me from my meat eating ways. I respect people who are vegetarian for moral reasons, and I’ve found such people to be generally easier to get along with and friendlier than your average meat eater. It takes some moral tenacity and strength of character to devote yourself to a lifestyle that takes a little accomodating.