If in a penalty shootout, the ball hits the post and rebounds onto the GK and then over the goal line, is it a goal?
Yes, in every league I’ve ever played or watched. The GK is considered an active, in-play part of the field, as is the goal post.
I a talking about penalty shootouts. Can you direct me to the official rule stating this?
Well, this is from the FIFA Laws of the Game 08/09:
From Law 14 - The Penalty Kick
When a penalty kick is taken during the normal course of play, or time
has been extended at half-time or full time to allow a penalty kick to
be taken or retaken, a goal is awarded if, before passing between the
goalposts and under the crossbar:
• the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar
and/or the goalkeeper
(pg 42)
From “Procedures to Determine the Winner of a match or home-and-away”:
“Kicks from the Penalty Mark”
Unless otherwise stated, the relevant Laws of the Game and
International F.A. Board Decisions apply when kicks from the penalty
mark are being taken (pg 51)
There are no other indications that the Law 14 provision would not apply to “Kicks from the Penalty Mark” to “Determine the Winner of a match or home-and-away”.
Link to the PDF can be found here: The website for the English football association, the Emirates FA Cup and the England football team
IIRC the rule states that in a penalty shoot-out the penalty has been completed when the ball comes to a standstill. So via post and/or goalie would count.
the keeper and the post are both considered part of the play. So if a keeper dives and gets a hand on the ball, but it still goes in, that’d be the same situation as if it bounced of a post and went in, or bounced of both. They’d all be goals
This can’t be quite right, as in a penalty shoot-out, if the keeper saves it the penalty taker is not permitted to score from the rebound. At least, I’m sure that’s the case, but I cannot find where in the Laws of the game that this is prevented.
Ayup, and more than one goalie will have to view on TV… again… and again… that one time in his life that he touched a penalty-shot ball and let it skip through his hands.
Since the rules don’t say “the shot stops when the goalie touches the ball” but “the shot stops when the ball stops,” I’d say it’s very much clear in the rules that hitting the goalie is like hitting a post, it doesn’t stop the game. And yes, I’ve seen cases of “ball hits goalie, bounces back, dude runs and kicks it in, since he wasn’t ‘orsay’(1) it’s valid”
(1) I don’t remember how to spell this in English, it’s when a player is too far ahead.
Offside.
But that’s only for in-game penalties. In shoot outs the shooter only gets one shot and the goalie can tip it anywhere he wants.
A good point is made that it doesn’t clearly state in the Laws (at least I can’t find it) that the kicker isn’t allowed to “follow up” his own kick in an end-game penalty kick. Clearly no other player can because the Laws do state that they have to be in the center circle at all times. Law 14 does state “The referee decides when a penalty kick has been completed.” I don’t see anything in the end-game procedures that specifically states the “one kick of the ball” rule - seems a strange oversight.
Glad I’m not the only one! I couldn’t even find it in the guide to interpreting the laws. Very odd.
This Wikipedia article states as follows:
The piece is preceded by a reference to the source of the information:
Chez, that is the source I took my information from (and the page numbers and wording generally matches so I’m pretty sure I have the correct document). There is nothing in there that supports the Wiki claim. If you could point me to the appropriate clause I’d appreciate it (PDF link here: Laws of the Game)
I completely agree that it is obvious that Wikipedia (and other posters) are 100% correct, it just seems to be an oversight in the FIFA handbook.
There’s a problem with the link for me but I looked at an html version of the laws and you’re right - it doesn’t seem to be there. If not, that’s a hell of an oversight.
I wonder if anyone else can help.
If you want to grasp at straws then you could argue that different parts of the document use the word “kick” in different senses. In Law 14 it’s pretty clear that “penalty kick” is meant to stand metonymically for the overall procedure (as in “The referee decides when a penalty kick has been completed.”) If “kick” in the section “Kicks from the penalty mark” is understood as a more literal “kicking the ball once” then you could argue that the rules imply that a follow up is not allowed. Of course that is a bit of a stretch.
I think you may find it is a time thing. If play is extended to allow a penalty to be taken, the referee will call time when he decides that the penalty has been completed. If the ball rebounds off the post past the goalkeeper, or rebounds off the goalkeeper then time will be called. The same will be true for penalty shoot outs.
That seems to be the most plausible way around it, but it’s still very odd that this is not made a bit more explicit in the rules.
IIRC, the rules had to be clarified, because at one stage they stated that the ball was declared inactive when it ceased going forward (as opposed to at rest). There was a famous case of a penalty shoot out in a World Cup (1984, I think) that the ball changed direction after hitting the post, rebounded of the back of the keepers head and went into the net. the penalty was allowed, but there was some discussion afterwards as to what constituted “going forward”, and the role of the goalkeeper (is he treated as a post, or as a player).
A distinction is made between penalty kicks during play and penalty kicks as a tie-breaker at the end of the match. During the match, play resumes as soon as the penalty is taken, which means that if there’s no goal but the goalie fumbles the ball, the opposing team can run up towards it and try to score in second instance. This is not allowed in a series of penalty kicks. I’m not sure if this affects the question posed in the OP; I’d venture that the situation described would absolutely be a goal during play but presumably also in a penalty shoot-out.
In this last world cup, in a shootout Zidane (France) played a kick that hit the top bar, bounced down and back so that it hit the ground about a foot outside of the goal line, and then bounced off the ground into the goal due to the spin it had coming off of the crossbar, and the goalie never touched it. It was a valid goal.
So I agree that something must have been clarified, since “ceased going forward” isn’t the critical requirement.