For David B, the good Doctor and others who are knowledgable about Creation debate

Great Debates
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David - it sounds as if the SDMB ‘powers that be’ more or less demanded an apology. I’m less than convinced that such an apology was necessary or appropriate.

This isn’t a slam on you; in fact, it’s quite the opposite. Absent further evidence, I feel that you were needlessly leaned on. I certainly wish Ed Zotti, or whoever, would give some us some specifics of what conduct he felt was unbecoming to a SDMB moderator.

While I realize the SDMB is a benevolent dictatorship, rather than a democracy, I would hope that ‘a decent respect to the opinions of mankind,’ as TJ put it, would evoke a response from those in charge of the SDMB.

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Guess what, guys - their admin, MBagnall, is the one saying that the Atlantic Monthly review of the LB books is bogus!

If the intelligence level of the people running the site is reflected by MBagnall’s posts here (and there, concerning here), I’m surprised they were able to realize the Web existed in the first place, let alone have the idea to put up a site on it. That their first reaction to vigorous disagreement is to squelch it is all too believable. And they wonder why we don’t want people like them running the country!

Of course, Bagnall justifies his barring us from there on the basis of what we said here. Whatever that has to do with anything, and a further indication of his brain-death.

Note to LBMBers, since you folks are reading this: you may not like the tone of posts such as this one, but geez, guys, sometimes after reading what’s on your site, we just had to blow off some steam. But I’ll cheerfully defend every word of the above. Just remember, I’ll have to do it here, so don’t rant about this post there!

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is this the creation debate?

There is only ONE WAY! (John 14:6)

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RTF: Nobody demanded, or even asked for or mentioned, an apology. I called Ed when I saw the flurry of e-mail and posts here and told him that I would like to post it. He agreed. While I always note that my posts here represent my views alone, the fact remains that I am a moderator on this message board, and, while I personally disagree with those who would say so, my actions can reflect poorly on this message board, the column, and the newspaper. When I was moderating in Fidonet, the rules I had noted that I was posting as an individual, not the moderator, unless I specifically stated otherwise. I have said the same thing here numerous times. But it still says “Moderator” below my name, and the potential for misunderstanding still exists. Therefore, I did not want to take the risk that such a problem would occur in this case. The fact is that none of the Administrators on this board knew of what was going on until yesterday. All I did was take responsibility for my part in all of this. Do I think the Left Behind board has problems in various areas? Absolutely. Nothing I have said changes my opinion on those issues. But that is not what my apology was about.

As I said in my message, it’s time to put this behind us and move on.

– David B

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No prob, David. Thanks for the explanation of your apology - I’ll let that drop there.

Now, back to fighting ignorance as usual - it’s still taking longer than we’d have thought. :wink:

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I really just don’t get you guys. I know I am totally out of my mind for even posting here, since after reading what most of you think about Christians, you will just think I am another moronic idiot because I believe in God and accept the Lord Jesus as my savior (oh-and by the way-i am also Catholic :)-fire away!) How insulting you are to Christians-you amke it sound as if we are all a bunch of addle brained jerks with nno clue about a thing who jsut blindly follow something that is not there and do no thinking for ourselves. Well, SURPRISE- christian does not mean imbecile! Now, I know some of my pals from the other board were not very cool when they came here-and personally, that is not my way.

But, you were obviously (from reading the thread here) out to atagonize us. Someone here even said something about how we need to be taught and learn the Straight dope? Why, because we do not believe as you do? Well then, you behaved as badly as those from the LB boards who you all are complaining about! You came over there to try to convert us, thinking we were simpletons and could have some fun with us. Seriously, were any of you there for a real discussion? Or wasn’t it more like, let’s go tick off the stupid Christians?

How insulting of you. you came to preach and convert what you believed to be truth and then when some of the LB’ers did it here-you all got pissed. Well, now we all had our fun and games.

glad to see you all so proud of yourselves over upsetting other human beings. I thought only grade school children purposely tried to annoy and upset others for their own fun? Oh well-guess I was wrong.

If anyone ever wanted to have a serious discussion over any of this for mutual learning-i am open to it. But just to aggravate and make fun of? Come on-grow up.

OK-blast away at me now.

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you Matthew 5:11-12

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I have to agree with Nishi, for the most part. David B, Soulfrost and the others may have felt they were engaging in honest debate over at LBMB, but – let’s face it – there also was an element of mischief and trouble-making. No, it’s not comparable to launching post after repetitive post out of a need for vengeance, but their ``infiltration’’ was not simon pure.

With that in mind, I can’t get too mad at Roxy, Victoria and the others who have visited the SDMB. We should take our medicine and get on with life. David’s admirable apologies have said that perfectly.

Lurker007 is a different matter, though. His multiple posts were just spiteful. Did anyone else catch a whiff of Phaedrus in some of his phrasing?

Gotta say: Every time this board starts to get dull, something unexpected happens.

Up, up and away!

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I just had to make the number of replies go to 666.

Continue where y’all left off.

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Monty:

An obsession? Or a compulsion?

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To Nishi and Clark, and anyone else who thinks that people here hate Christians:

There are many respected posters here who profess their belief in Christianity. Some of them are even friends and get along very well with us non-Christians. And you know what? That’s cool. I have Christian (Catholic, Protestant, Mormon) friends. I have Christian (Catholic) relatives. I don’t belittle their religion, and they don’t belittle mine, because we respect each other. I guess this is going to sound cheesy, but that’s the truth. This MB is not expressly for witnessing, and when people do it here, they are going bashed. Those Dopers who went to the LBMB were there for debate, to discuss topics, mostly with respect for other’s beliefs. Sometimes they laughed at things they thought were silly, but they didn’t go in and say, “You are all wrong! Atheism is better! Join us!” If they had, I know I would have lost respect for them.

Anyway, I hope that you understand what I’m saying. I don’t know you very well, but if everyone can learn to respect the beliefs of others, I’d be happy to discuss and debate things with you.

~Kyla

“You couldn’t fool your mother on the foolingest day of your life if you had an electrified fooling machine.”

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[/quote]
David B
Moderator posted 12-28-1999 04:08 PM

I dunno. I kind of like that rule. I think I’ll ask Ed to impose it here.
[/quote]

He has, David. At least on moderators.

-Melin

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Melin - the funny thing is, they’ve already changed their rules. (Maybe they realized they’d gotten too heavy-handed.) I still can’t figure out under what rule they kicked us out, though. Unless we were under Double Secret Probation. :wink:

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Nishi - nobody here seems to think I’m an idiot for accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior. And as Kyla pointed out, I’m far from the only one here. We don’t feel like anyone’s trying to harass us because we’re Christians.

I think there are two factors at work that make me feel more at home over here than on the LBMB, and would make most LeftBehinders feel under attack here.

One is that, on this board, most Christians have a clear sense of boundary between fact, and that which we accept as fact due to our faith. So we don’t get all huffy with atheists who don’t accept our faith-based premises.

One way around this is with an OP that starts the discussion off at a particular place. For instance, the “Why Pray?” thread assumed the Judaeo-Christian God, and asked, within that context, what intercessory prayer accomplished (if anything), and how. (Made for a pretty good discussion, too.)

The other is that we Christians acknowledge and respect a wide range of differing beliefs amongst ourselves. We don’t start off with a whole bunch of implicit assumptions about everything from inerrancy to political and social issues; there is no ‘evangelical correctness’ operating here. Christians who feel they know the ‘right’ way to practice Christianity, and know the ‘true’ interpretations of Scriptures over which there is disagreement, won’t find many friends on the SDMB.

One can claim an interpretation is correct, then try to defend that interpretation against any critics that happen to come along, or one can state a particular interpretation as an assumption in an OP, to further the discussion. But other than that, one can’t expect one’s assumptions to be everyone’s.

Like I said, these factors would make most LBMBers feel pretty uncomfortable. But if they don’t bother you, then c’mon in and join the fun.

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Firefly: “Keeping bad company” obviously! :wink:

-Melin

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You know…I’d love to get into some great debates…if those debating are up to presenting evidence for their arguments…it seems to me that this whole board war has been nothing but slamming the Christians, by simply asking question after question, without allowing any answers to actually be given. The Christians came back with more questions for the new posts and the next thing you know…it was hitting the fan!

Smart people shouldn’t act stupid and rich people shouldn’t act poor.

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Didn’t Jesus answer every question with a question?

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We have quite a few regular posters here who are Christians. We get on just fine.

We do slam sanctimonious, hypocritical, moronic spammers, though.

Hope that’s okay with you.

A seminar on time travel will be held two weeks ago.

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coosa: I am thanking Mr. Zotti for his last post on this thread.

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Well, now that I’ve seen what a mess it is outside this thread, I suppose this is where I should post my contribution to the post-mortem.

Gosharoonies, I feel like Harriet Beecher Stowe.

As the person whose post was apparently the catalyst for Phaedrus’ decision to take action, I offer my apology to all and sundry on BOTH message boards for my part in the recent unpleasantness (and if there are any LBMB denizens still here to see this I would REALLY appreciate it if you could forward it over to there).

The point is moot, of course, but I find myself wondering all the same: If my post had carried the word participation in all of the places where I referred to infiltration, would Phaedrus have gotten just as upset? Would the appearance of the post on the LBMB have aroused the same level of ire?

Also a moot point, but Phaedrus, I’m curious as to your methods; did you forward the post directly to mbagnall, or did you send it to SD Admin with a request that some type of heads up be given to him?

I visited LBMB for a few hours, and found several threads devoted to this issue. At first I was amused (as I had predicted I would be) at the paranoia evident in all the responses to the warning that they were under attack, one notable exception being the coolheadedness of Onesimos, but gradually some of the messages gave me to understand that LBMB was not wreaking havoc only upon themselves, and maybe I better have a look at what’s been going on over here.

Not a pretty sight. And it’s really embarrassing. Like the time I was in a church for Christmas Eve Midnight Mass (about twenty years ago), and while the altar boy was lighting some of those high Mass candles with his candle lighting stick (I never did know what they call those things, even when I was using them), well I broke wind, very loudly, as I knelt down in the pew (sorry for the unfortunate juxtaposition). The altar boy was so startled that he set the straw in the creche on fire, and the church had to be evacuated while the fire was put out, seven hundred people milling about in the church parking lot at twelve-thirty in the morning does not make for the homely Christmas memory you might think it would.

Anyway, I got a little exuberant about the prospect of ending this cross-pollination experiment, and I showed poor judgment in the suggestion I made to sign my LBMB screen identity over to another user. As a result of all the dominoes that toppled due to that post, a lot of people on two message boards were subjected to inconvenience, alarm, and anger (both deserved and over-reactive, IMO).

So, I accept my responsibility for the mess, and offer once again my heartfelt apologies for all of the distress it caused any of you.

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While your post might have been ill-advised, Kaylasdad, it took a lot of help to get from there to this weekend’s turbulence. It took the forwarding of your post to Mike Bagnall of the LBMB, and it most certainly took Bagnall’s excessive overreaction.

And, of course, it took the bad judgment of whoever runs the LeftBehind empire to put Bagnall, who combines the intellect of a protozoan with the instincts of a petty dictator, to give him more advanced responsibility than that of eating and going to the bathroom. So some small part of the responsibility may be yours, but don’t let it keep you up nights. :slight_smile: