For fuck's sake, the flag burning amendment AGAIN?!

That summarizes everything that is wrong with the conservative right — I don’t like it; therefore, no one should do it. The only difference between your sentiment and that of a socialist is the object of your fetishes — I don’t have any money; therefore, no one should have any.

I heard it said once that “The essence of America is the balance between ‘freedom to’ and ‘freedom from’.” If the flag burning amendment was adopted it would remove “burn the flag” from the things we have the freedom to do. It would also add to the list of things we are not free from, meaning prosecution for an act which does no harm to anyone and has in the past been considered a means of protective speech.

Freedom from overbearing nanny states who decide for individuals what should and should not be considered sacrosanct(especially if the flag was purchased for the purpose) seems very American. Freedom to express yourself, even to the extreme of attacking the symbol of an institution you are in conflict with, is also very American.


There is a certain logic. Congress tried to pass a law against it, but the SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional. Not justifying, just explaining, folks!!

The private incineration of a worn flag or the dignified ceremonies organizations like the American Legion perform are worlds away from burning or desecrating a flag in protest.

But you knew that.

Let’s keep our minds on what the real issue is, and please note that I am not in favor of the amendment.

You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? :slight_smile:

I’m not Guin, but I feel the same way so I’ll throw my answer to this in here.

The ideals of personal freedom of this country are far more important than the symbols and traditions honoring it. Weakening the former to strengthen the latter would deeply offend and outrage me, because I love this country.

You say that flag-burning would convey no political message; I disagree. If large numbers of people who love this country started burning flags in protest, it would send a powerful message.

[sub]On preview, I see I am very slow. Curses.[/sub]

What happens when two amendments conflict? Can SCROTUS declare this one in contradiction to another?

Huh? :confused:

I’d think freedom of speech would be of greater importance than a flag buring amendment. But, that said,

I don’t think gay marriage is a particularly pressing national issue, either. I’ve got no problem with it, but it’s taken up some congressional time lately. A “Marriage Amendment” seems to be something else we don’t really need (and note that the amendment proposed would ban same-sex marriages before anybody starts with the homophobe stuff).



I was wondering the same thing.

Also, thanks lno.

I have said I don’t favor the amendment, Liberal. That doesn’t mean I think flags ought to be burned.

We have a flag code in this country, spelling out how the flag ought to be treated. This code is well established in American custom, and ought to be respected as a part of our national heritage.

By the same token, a belief in freedom of speech doesn’t mean that I think any more Ashlee Simpson albums ought to be made. Freedom can be put to some pretty disgusting ends, obviously. :wink:

Can this actually pass? Are things that fucking stupid at this point?

OMG! I agree with Mr.Moto about something! Horrors!


The latest one holds. Think prohibition.

I don’t think you should be able to burn THE flag of the Unisted States (BTW, which one is THE flag; is it the the one flying over the Capitol?) Burning A flag of the United States is a different manner.

The constitution is another matter. Might as well burn that, no one is using it.

Eating turkey on Thanksgiving is also an established American custom, but that doesn’t make it “wrong” to have pasta instead.

Incidentally, I remember having the “flag code” illustrated on the lid of the pencil box I was given in the third grade. Even at that young age, I thought it was immensely stupid to invest that much effort in a scrap of fabric.

They really might be. Most likely, the amendment will not survive a Senate vote, but it is getting frighteningly close.

If the Senate passes it, would sufficient states also ratify it?

Thanks, Ino. Now I’m disgusted with California for a completely new reason. How in the great blue fuck could anyone think this amendment is necessary, let alone worth the paid time they spent talking about it. They’re all getting letters.

Beware the fury of an angry chicken!

Here is how I understood John Mace’s statement, “You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you?” I (Scott) feel that, unlike many of your past statements, “That summarizes everything that is wrong with the conservative right” is correct, and quite supportable. However, John either feels it is not supportable, but also feels his statement should be taken lightly, or some other thing, I can’t tell what.