For the moron with the too-loud car stereo, next to me at the stoplight

The BBQ Pit
81

I’m glad she’s trained. Most aren’t. My neighbors dogs and children aren’t. THat lands under the Noise ordinance.

A screaming child in public doesn’t. And neither do Harlies, Buses, loud exhaust systems or anything else in public(oops, there’s that word again)–At least not in SJ(as PLD so well pointed out, it only applies to “Real Property”).

Once again, I have to ask-is a parent with a screaming child in public violating your rights? Do you get all incensed and violent with them because they’re being discourteous, or do you humor the parent and say, “isn’t she so cute, yes you are, yes you are”?

I’d guess it was the latter over the former. If so, then you’ve proved MY point, which is that just the nature of the noise is what your complaint is about, not the noise per se.

Can the parent take the child outside? sure they can, but parents like this would rather inconvenience the people around them rather than disturb their meal(not all parents are at all like this, just a select few, so nobody take offense to this).

Well, I don’t see any of you starting pit threads about this(the last time that happened, someone decided to say how they just loved to let their kids scream when they knew that it bothered them), and if you did you’d get flamed all to hell cause we’re not allowed to complain about things of this nature. We take pity on the parents and excuse them for their rude behavior. On the other hand, we lash out at the young stereotyped kids with loud stereos, fair? hell no. There are simple, courteous solutions to both sources of noise. One we call an asshole, an insensitive prick, and a deaf bastard…the other one, we humor and pity which encourages this behavior just as much(Please note: this is not a dig into parents, I’m simply illustrating a point).

Conversely, can the person with the loud stereo lower the volume for the 30 seconds they’re at the light? Of course they can, but they’d rather inconvenience the people on either side of them than disturb their music, right? Does that make it right? Nope, but you probably can’t do anything about it.

We’re all deaf bastards? Yosemite, you’re such a hypocrite with your categorizing of people who listen to music or do anything over your listening level. It’s such a gross generalization, and so wrong I’m going to ignore your posts. If I can’t categorize your ability to hear, you can’t do that to me either. Also Yose…try to keep calm and not throw insults around, I’m really not here for that.

Byz, are you on a mission here?

And in response to why I’m still here, as I said I’m "pretty much " ignoring this thread, and that was in regards to the fact that I’ve not been able to access it until tonite, in under 20 minutes. And who’s mentioned toughness since Lexi and I had our little spat a few days ago? This has nothing to do with it.

-Sam

P.S.-- Shadenwawa, I’m sorry if I let you down, but GaWd did not take a vacation or anything…I like my stereo too much, that’s all. It’s stupid, and discourteous, and I’ll even apologize for it, but I’m not gonna turn it down, and it’s certainly not the end of the world. I think it would do these people a lot of good to concentrate their efforts on fighting some other cause, unless they are the terminally whiney, permanently pissed-off types I take them for.

I’m still as stable and as reasonable as ever on most subjects, I’m even courteous most of the time.

Once again, I must don MY asbestos undies and ford into the flames…:slight_smile:

82

yosemitebabe said:

Just for my own edification, is the Hollywood Bowl outside? (I’ve never been there, and I think I’ve seen the Monty Python at the Hollywood Bowl thing, but I can’t remember). If so, outdoor concerts are a lot different than indoor concerts. And the bigger the area, the less the sound. Even a normal car stereo can get as loud as a normal concert at Red Rocks (outside), my stereo probably is as loud as a concert at McNichols Arena (inside but huge and now torn down), but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a car stereo as loud as the inside of the Fillmore Auditorium (small and inside) on a rocking night.

Here’s another question though: What if most people didn’t mind the sound? What if they just went about their day to day business without worrying about it? And didn’t obect if someone played their stereo loud? Would that make a difference? Or would you still insist that everyone should be considerate of the minority of people who have sensitive hearing and for whom it hurts?

Byz, I’m not even sure what the heck you’re saying, so I guess I don’t have any response to you. :slight_smile:

83

GaWd, here are some links about loud noise and hearing loss:
http://www.nih.gov/nidcd/health/pubs_hb/noise.htm
http://www.nzhealth.co.nz/everybody/docsd_h/hearloss.htm and http://text.nlm.nih.gov/nih/cdc/www/76txt.html
Quoting from the last link (empahsis mine):

One of the links estimates that “normal conversation” is 60 decibels, and that anything over 80 decibels can cause hearing damage over time. Now, I suspect that most disruptively loud radios are over 80 decibels…just my hunch. The loud music I hear is waaay louder than “normal conversation”.

I don’t go use the term “deaf” carelessly, I’ve already seen it in many people my age or younger than me. And I think the above links verify my point. One of my high school friends worked at the Greek Theatre (which had loud concerts) and now she has permanent hearing loss. Another friend had a boyfriend who was a musician, she has permanent hearing loss from being around him when he practiced. I remember a teenage co-worker who had a habit of listening to her walkman TOO loud. I commented on it with concern, she just blew me off. But I know she was confused when one day I pointed out a clearly audible sound from the street, but she couldn’t hear it, at all. I think that is a prime example of hearing loss. Some friends of mine, who are not in the habit of playing their music loud, have also noticed this among people they know. One example is when my friend handed a walkman to a loud-music-listening schoolmate of her’s. My friend set her Walkman’s volume at a level that was audible and comfortable for her. But when she handed it to her schoolmate, the girl couldn’t hear anything, and had to turn the volume way up in order to hear anything.

These are all anecdotal examples, but too many to be a coincidence, in my opinion. Hey - I don’t know that you have hearing loss yet, but like I said before, if your hearing isn’t shot yet, it eventually will be if you keep your current habits up. Just check the links.

And just because many people do willingly expose themselves to sounds that exceed 80 decibels (and I’m almost certain most “loud” radios are louder than 80 decibels) does not make it “normal” or “right”, and the rest of us shouldn’t have to be subjected to it. I am not certain that I don’t already have some hearing loss…I probably do, for various reasons. But I have at least tried to protect my hearing. And if that makes it seem like I have “sensitive hearing” to the many people who do willingly expose their ears to noise levels higher than 80 decibels, that is not my fault. It does not make my hearing “super sensitive” or anything, merely because too many people these days are willingly working their way to permanent hearing loss.

84

THank you very much for soming back down to a conversation level with me.

On to sound exposure levels. Last night I was looking up the subject. The most common referencs I saw(I will provide them if need be), had that “Extended” periods of time exposed to sound pressure levels of 90-95db were damaging. They were also very clear about the “Extended” listening periods(what’s extended? they never said, but I’m sure a 5 minute grocery trip or a 15 minute drive to work isn’t it).

While I don’t deny the fact that people all around are suffering from hearing loss(my very close friend, Joffre works in home automation basically doing construction…they don’t enforce hearing protection laws, and he’s gonna go deaf. Also, when in high school, I damaged my damned ears using walkmans before football games). Something of note here is that it was in high school where I got my last hearing test and passed with flying colors.

I’m not going to argue about what the “Typical stereo system” kicks out db-wise, I’m simply gonna test it for myself and let you know. TOmorrow, I will thake my SPL meter out and test it from my listening position, and then test it from the outside. After a majority of the waveforms have been absorbed my the car upholstery, body Etc, I’d imagine that it was maybe 70-75db, but we’ll know for sure.

THank you for being civil, and we’ll talk later for sure :slight_smile:

-Sam

By the time

85

Gawd, I wasn’t specifically calling you a “semi-deaf bastard”. I was making a sweeping generalization of any jerk who plays his/her radio too loud (loud enough that it hurts my ears) but doesn’t know how loud it really is, because they’ve already fried their hearing. And then they dare to imply that I have “sensitive ears” because I’m bothered by it.

I found some more links:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/990426/nycu/26hear.htm
an excerpt from that is:

Obviously hearing loss from loud noise is a real problem in America.

Another link: http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/texts/guide/hmg31_0008.html had this to say (emphasis mine):

Other interesting links:
http://hearnet.com/features/articles/artist_article_EdWalshclub.html

http://www.nonoise.org/library/essays/miyara/initiatn.htm

http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~sustain/global/sensem/S98/Nunez/Noise.html

My point here is this: I don’t know how many decibels you play your radio at, I don’t know if you are half-deaf yet or not. I am speaking in generalities. Car radios that are so loud that the neighboring cars can feel the vibrations, are TOO LOUD. In some cases, the loudnesss can be uncomfortable for people like me, who have taken pains to not expose themselves to loud music. The links I have found indicate that after someone is exposed to loud sounds, they are temporarily deafened, (it becomes permanent if exposure keeps up for a extended period of time.) People like me, who are not exposed to these loud sounds are obviously going to be more sensitive to these loud sounds. So yeah, it’ll sometimes hurt my ears. Really. But the person who is playing the loud radio is thinking “What’s the big deal? It doesn’t hurt my ears!” Well, that’s because their ears have been temporarily (or permanently) deafened to the sound. So of course it doesn’t hurt anymore!

I have been reading different numbers than yours when it comes to what db is in the “danger zone”. The number I encounter is more like 80 - 85 db. I also wonder what they mean by “extended periods of time”. If the random 5 - 15 minute exposure isn’t enough to do harm, how come so many people are losing their hearing? (Particularly younger people/teens.) I doubt that all these people that are going deaf are constantly attending loud concerts, and have their radios on 8 hours a day, every day. I don’t think it’s as drastic as that. I think we need to find more specific information about how long and how loud it can be, in order to cause eventual damage.

I am not claiming that my brief exposure to some jerk’s loud radio at a stop sign will damage my hearing (but an above quote does hint that if it hurts your ears, it is damaging.) I am just saying that loud music is more uncomfortable for some of us than for others. If you’ve grown up attending loud concerts, and playing your walkman too loud, it’s obvious that your hearing sensitivity is probably going to be different from someone who has taken pains to not do any of these things.

86

Hey, GaWd, I don’t know you really well, but I thought you were a pretty cool guy until reading this thread. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have the general impression - which to me is apparent in the above quote - that after so many people have condemned you and called you names, you’re on the defensive and cannot admit that you’re being a jerk. I mean, this thread started as a General Rant, and it has become a Attack GaWd thread, which is probably something you didn’t intend when you posted, and I’m guessing you were surprised by the vehemence displayed by other posters. But pride, or machismo, or whatever, won’t allow you to back down after two pages of bickering. Just playing the unlicsenced psychologist here (can I get my own radio show?), I could be wrong.

If I am, well, you are a jerk.

Oh, and by the way, some people suggested that GaWd wear headphones in his car, something which I believe is illegal in California.

87

GaWd – thank you, yes, she is. She is, according to every neighborhood watch meeting I’ve been to, the best dog on the block. Many times it’s been said that if she is barking, pay attention. I take it as a complement to my training and her intelligence. She is smart. Apparently, (forgive the dig) smarter than you. She knows better.

Since you’ve missed this so many times let me do it again. I don’t get all angry and hostile. It isn’t me. I look at a screaming child and smile. I know, that’s so hard for you to grasp but nine times out of ten they stop. In wonder. They respond to my “hey honey, what’s up?” attitude.

I giggle at them, make faces if I’m in line behind them, ask them about what they saw in the store or what’s in their cart or mine. Bananas? Isn’t that a funny word! The big thing with a fussy child is distraction. They aren’t crying to fuck up your life or their parents. They are crying and fussy because they are tired, they are children, and they have no other way to relate. They are children. You aren’t. You have other ways to relate to the world. I can forgive and understand the fussy wails of a child (which can’t even begin to reach the decibel level of your stereo); I cannot forgive yours.

You are able to vocalize your pain, frustration, angst, in other ways. Or so you should be able to. Comparing your loud, booming music to a frightened, upset or butt-wet child isn’t just absurd… no, wait, it is. Absurd. A small child has no other way to vocalize. You cannot expect a three year old to say, “Mother, my butt is wet and I wish to take a nap.” And their magnitude can’t even come close to your stereo. Is this a violation of my rights? No. This is noise that no one is really responsible for. A small child has no other way to communicate but for smiles, giggles, crying and at times of stress, wailing. Even in the home closest to mine, I do not hear the booming bass of a child wailing. They are just not vocally capable of the noise your stereo is. Again, nine times out of ten, a parent will remove the child from the “public” place so as not to annoy or infringe on others. However, there are times when this is not possible.

You fail to see the difference. It isn’t just the nature of the noise nor the noise per say. It’s the noise it’s self and why it’s happening. A wailing child? That is an understandable noise. Road construction? Again understandable. Your stereo? Yes, we understand WHY but it doesn’t make it acceptable. That is a noise, that with your help, can be controlled.

A Harley bike? Yeah, that’s a noise that is annoying. But again, you can’t sit in your driveway and rev your bike. Again, in most states, they are restricted in their noise output. Just like cars.

And why do you expect anyone to start another thread on this issue? I think most think we are fine here. No one is advocating that children screaming is a great thing; it’s just that most adults (sorry if that doesn’t include you) know that children are limited in their responses. Oh, wait. Maybe now we get you too.

“There are simple, courteous solutions to both sources of noise.”

“It’s such a gross generalization,”

Yes, children must be humored because they do not understand… a child parading as an adult must be shown why his actions are not acceptable. But I don’t want to generalize.

I, on a mission? To get you to pull your head out? If you want to call that a mission, fine.

P.S. Kyla – good point. Dangerous to wear head phones while operating a car. Best to just turn down the stereo. So you can hear police or other emergency vehicles. Sorry I missed that. I was thinking of a home booming stereo, not a car stereo. Where, a booming car stereo, could be so loud you would not hear emergency vehicles coming up behind you.

But I’m sure someone has a justification for why that is okay.

Can’t wait.