For those that believe in hell...

Great Debates
61

moejuck

I was not infering that Hell would be a pleasant experience. I was trying to say that God doesn’t use hell to scare people into obeying him. The verse doesn’t say “I will send you into everlasting punishment”.

Not in that verse but Jesus is quite clear that hell is not a place you go on your own, rather you are cast there (cast means thrown). Jesus says so in a number of places but this is probably my favorite:

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I am assuming then that you believe that Hell is a way of keeping Christians in line?

I would call hell a scary meme that caught on. Jesus sure made it sound scary; furnace of fire, worms and all that.

I completely disagree if this is the case. The punishment of hell is the consequence.

Not sure if I gather what you mean by that, but Jesus was quite clear about hell being a punishment, “consequence” isn’t in my concordance (KJV).

It is not a random punishment that God will use like a slave master beating one of his slaves just to show his power to the rest.

True, hell is hidden from us as the OP noted, as such it does not serve much of a purpose other than the threats Jesus and his followers made. If god wanted to arbitrarily mess with someone to show his power he would do it in full view just like he did to Pharaoh before he plagued and killed him and his people.

Romans 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

I am only pointing out that, in my opinion, Hell is a choice made by people, not God.

That’s your opinion but god says different, assuming you believe in the bible:

Romans 9:15-16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of god that showeth mercy.

Ephesians 1: 4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the pleasure of his will.

Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

It’s all about him not us. I sure am glad it’s a bunch of superstitious nonsense.:slight_smile:

62

If we may return to the original question - the notion of Hell on serves as a scare tactic.

Really there is no Hell - it’s just an invention used for political and personal oppression.

If you want to know what “hell” actually is in a proper reading of the Biblical writings then try this:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/articles/jesus_hell.php

63

you mean it’s like jail with fire and torture and stuff? You get sent there but can later leave? Is it escapable?
I haven’t read through all the posts yet, but to answer the OP (seriously) - hell is simply a rationalisation for all the unfairness and injustices we witness daily. People don’t want to believe that bad things can be perpetrated without consequence, and if they can’t see it (the consequences, i.e. jail, punishment of some form) effected in this life, then why not simply “believe” it’s effected in the next… it quells all the "what did that girl do to deserve that?/“Why do millions of innocent children starve?” type questions that bubble up to the surface without “hell” in the way.

An everyday scaled-down example of the hell concept:
You’re driving along in your car down a single-lane road, just below the speed-limit. Another car pulls up RIGHT on your ass, flashing his lights, honking, gesturing for you to get out the way. After a few minutes of this harrassment, you pull over a bit and he zooms past. As he disappears down the road, obviously breaking the speed limit, you think to yourself “yeah buddy, I hope there’s a cop over the next hill with YOUR name on a ticket!”*. That’s hell - minus the fiery pits and what-not. You witness something punishable happen, see no punishment in effect, but wish some would be (and it DOES seem deserved).

Heaven is the same rationalisation in the opposite direction (heh). If a good deed goes (apparently) unrewarded here on earth, well that can’t be right, the person is obviously going to heaven.

  • some, more vindictive, folks might wish far worse things than a speeding ticket. Sigh. Religion… just so DAMNABLY insidious.
64

And why would I take the word of near death experiences over what the Bible says about hell? What you’re saying about it doesn’t match up, imho. Counselors in hell? Don’t see anything in the Bible about that. Created by the thoughts of those who believe in it? Don’t see that either. I disagree with you totally, but of course, as always, it’s just my opininion as I know many here don’t take the Bible as an authority or don’t interpret it the same way. In my belief system, hell is a serious business and very real and you’re just trying to explain it away as if it’s all in our minds. I believe what God says (my belief and opinion) over what near death experiences say.

65

The Bible is not God. Mortal men wrote the Bible.

As for me I believe what I experience, most people do that. You are a good person, and in my opinion would be better by concentrating on the Love one another aspect of Jesus teachings.

66

Well, thanks Lekatt. I think you’re a good person, too, even if I don’t agree with you about the Bible and nde’s.
I can’t concentrate just on one thing and ignore the rest of scripture. Of course, Jesus said to love one another. He said a lot of other things, too, including things about hell and the fact that His blood was going to be shed for many for the remissions of sins. I realize that we’re not going to change each others minds on this issue.

67

For an interesting read, check out C. S. Lewis’s The Great Divorce. (No, it’s not about divorce; the title alludes to William Blake’s The Marriage of Heaven and Hell.) A bunch of people take a bus trip from Hell to Heaven; some of them stay there, and others choose to return to Hell instead. The book is obviously not intended as a literal description of what Hell or Heaven is like; it’s more of an extended parable addressing the question of how a good God could let people go to hell.

68

[sing-song]
I’m going to Heaven.
I’m going to Heaven.
[/sing-song]
Or maybe not. But if I’m not going then nobody is.